Diarrhea after food change?

[LarryL]

Oliver is a little over 3 months - he's been with me a bit over two weeks.

At the two week mark I wanted to change his food.
We are switching from Royal Canin mini puppy - to Orijen puppy.
We didn't switch cold turkey, but father I mixed the orijen w the RC kibble.
Maybe I mixed too much?

It's about 65/70% RC & 30/35% Orijen.
He's been eating that since Thursday.

Yesterday he had hist first diarrhea.
For the most part he always had soft BM's - but this was full blown diarrhea.
In the last two weeks I've always tried pumpkin to harden up his stool, but it doesn't really work for us.

Also today's stool looked a bit mucus-y
We have an appt at the vet and are bring a stool sample.



My question is - when changing foods, is diarrhea normal?
Like is it his body just adjusting to it?
Or does diarrhea mean he can't take the food?

Thanks in advance for all the great insight I'm sure to receive!

Larry & Oliver

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Did your puppy ever have a fecal test done? You say that his motions were always on the soft side and that's why I ask. You need to rule out Giardia or any parasites. In saying that when I changed Riley over to Orijen at 12 weeks old we went through three weeks of mushy poop. It resolved itself and we haven't looked back. Continually changing foods is not a good idea and will be much harder on his tummy, plus you won't know what is causing the problem.   I changed cold turkey as we were going to grain free and it didn't make sense to be feeding the two together. Wait for other replies on this as there may be other opinions but going to the vet is a good idea just as long as you don't get sold Rx food or are prescribed Metro antibiotics. Don't give meds unless there is a definite diagnosis. If there is Giardia, Panacur is the best med and you need to give a probiotic with it. That is very important. Final advice don't panic there is sure to be more advice on the way here. Karen is the expert with all this and has helped countless numbers of puppy owners with the same problem.

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

I agree with everything Nicky has said.  You are doing the best thing by going to the vet, and having a fecal done.  There is a good chance Oliver has giardia..many puppies get it..but it has an incubation period. The mucous on his poop has me thinking there is something going on with the lining of his intestine.  If you haven't started already, I would get Oliver a probiotic..Proviable DC is a very good one..some vets offices even carry it!  In the meantime, you can give him 1-2 tablespoons of plain, unflavored greek yogurt.  I would wait to see what Karen says, but maybe consider feeding a bland diet until things clear up..boiled chicken and sweet potatoes (microwave for 5 minutes, or bake a whole tray @ 400 until soft).  Like Nicky said, please do not buy RX food from the vet, no matter what the vet promises you…and also like she said, Panacur is the best treatment for giardia..but please get a diagnosis before you get the RX..you NEED a reason!  

Good luck, and please keep us posted!!!

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Why you should say no to RX foods link

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/why-you...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jill's advice is perfect.

The only thing I would add is that when you give yogurt or probiotics, you must allow at least two hours between those and any meds the dog may be taking. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Loose stool is normal when making a food change, but not mucus. I agree with the others, lets see what the fecal shows.

Also, you cannot simply substitute a portion of a food like RC with an equal portion of Orijen. Orijen is much higher in calories and more nutrient dense. It's possible that you have been feeding too much, which can cause digestive issues. 

Here is the way to do a food transition, if you don't want to just go cold turkey:

Look at the feeding guidelines for each food, and determine what one meal's worth of food is for each.

Replace one quarter of one meal's portion of the old food with one quarter of a meal's portion of the new food. There will most likely be less food than usual in the bowl. Do this for 2-3 days.

Then you use 50% of one meal's worth of each food for the next 2-3 days.

Then you go to 3/4 of one meal's worth of the new food with 1/4 of one meal's worth of the old food for another 2-3 days.

And then you go to 100% of the new food.

Hope this makes sense.

[LarryL]

Hi Karen,

The thing is when looking at both feeding guides they're approximately the same.
My breeder and vet both told me to feed between 1/2 a cup & 5/8 of a cup 3 times a day.
The packaging for RC makes you pick your target weight - which is weird - but picking 22lbs it suggests 1-7/8 a day.
Most days he doesn't finish all 3 servings, but for the most part he eats the portions the vet and the breeder suggest.

Orijen suggests 1.5 cups a day, which is pretty much what he's been eating already - sometimes he leaves some, but for the most part I would say we're at the suggested amounts.

Can organic pumpkin give him diarrhea?
I've noticed it doesn't really help Oliver - if anything it gives him diarrhea - just my guess, but is this possible??

This morning Oliver is less energetic than usual - so I def think he doesn't feel good.
I guess his tummy may be bothering him.

Should I feed him something else right now to help his tummy rather than his kibble??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Pumpkin won't normally cause diarrhea, but it doesn't always help, either.

Let us know how the vet appt goes. Above all, do not buy Rx food and do not accept a prescription for metronidazole unless there is a verified infection for which the drug is known to be effective. 

If the fecal shows giardia, as Nicky and Jill mentioned, you must insist that the vet give you Panacur, not metronidazole. 

I would not feed him anything else right now. He may need to go on a chicken and rice or chicken and sweet potato diet, but let's see what the vet says. 

[Chelsie]

When I switched Sam from breeders food to my choice, Puppy Chow to Acana, we experienced the same thing. We did a stool sample at the vet 2x over a couple weeks and both were negative. He would have diarrhea and mucus. I would give him pumpkin and yogurt with not much relief. We did the bland diet with rice and chicken, but every time I added kibble back he would get mucusy diarrhea. Eventually the vet told me to maybe think about using a healthy grain food instead of Acana, I switched to Nature's Variety Prairie Puppy food and everything went back to normal. I continued to use that food but did eventually switch him to Acana, not sure what age, but did a very, very slow transition. Today his poops are perfect! You are doing the right thing by contacting your vet and getting great advice from the amazing Food Group. Hopefully your puppy finds relief soon, it's no fun when they have diarrhea.

[LarryL]

So just got back from the vet.

He said Oliver looks just fine.
Said that it is most likely due to the food switch.
Still gave fecal sample and will have the results tomorrow.
His "crusty winky" is fine too.

The vet said to add some rice to his next few feedings, to give him a little bit of yogurt, and a teaspoon of kaopectate a few times a day.

WHAT SAY YOU GUYS WITH THIS ADVICE????? (Especially the Kaopectate)

Also, as I said earlier his kibble right now is about 65% old food (RC), 35% new food (orijen)
I am wondering if I should buy another small bag of the old royal canin to dilute the mix.

The dr said leave it as is, and he may have runs for another week, but should be fine after.

Would you guys take that advice or dilute??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree with your vet on everything except the rice. I personally would add about a half cup of plain baked mashed sweet potatoes to his meals instead. (Bake in microwave, peel, mash with fork) Other than that and the yogurt, I would leave his food alone. Do not add anything else or change anything. 

I'm actually very impressed that your vet didn't try to sell you meds or Rx food, and that he/she recommended simple things like rice,  yogurt., and the kaopectate. 

[LarryL]

So Oliver's fecal test came back positive for Giardia :-(

How serious is this?
I'm going to the DR to pick up meds

I know it should be panacur - but what else should I know, do, or ask????

I took Karens advice, we have him some sweet potato w his food, and some yogurt - no kaopectate yet.

He seems better, his poop firmed up a bit - but still runny.

Please give all advice tips for giardia - going to vet in hour

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You must pick up all poop the instant he "goes". Wear rubber gloves, as giardia is contagious.

You must disinfect any area the poop touches or may have touched, and that includes outdoors (with bleach & water). 

Wash all of his bedding and stuffed toys, anything that may have been contaminated. 

You must clean his bottom every time he goes. 

Make sure he is not eating anything outdoors, and not drinking standing water outdoors. 

If you live in a temperate area where it's cold and there is snow on the ground, most likely the outdoor stuff is not going to be an issue, as long as he doesn't eat the snow. 

Since the diarrhea is clearly caused by giardia, you probably don;t need the kaopectate. Panacur usually works in 3-5 days.