How long before I give up ? (pumpkin question)

[Clint]

My puppy, Joe, is 11 weeks old today.  I have been trying to transition him to Orijen large breed puppy for about 2 weeks.  I started out with a slow transition from Blackwood to Orijen.  During this time his poops got runnier and runnier.  Once he was eating about 75% Orijen and 25% Blackwood I started to add pumpkin because his BM's were just not up to par.  The pumpkin worked a good bit.  In the morning they were pretty good, but by night they were pretty runny.  Then his BM's were unpredictable for a few days.  One would look great and literally 2 minutes later they would look horrible.

 

Fast forward to this weekend.  I took him out of town for the first time and didn't have any pumpkin with me.  OMG...at some points it was literally projectile diarrhea!  I started him back on pumpkin last night when we got home and all day today his BM's have been dark and MUCH firmer...maybe the firmest yet.  

My question is at what point should I just say forget Orijen and pumpkin?  I have already ordered a bag of wellness large breed puppy, but I don't even plan on opening it until this week has passed.  I have also started to add a little more than just 1 tablespoon of pumpkin per serving.  Probably more like 1.5-2 tablespoons per meal.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Clint,

There's no reason to think the Wellness formula will work any better than the Orijen; in fact, depending on which line it is, things could be worse. Is it a grain-free food? Wellness has three separate lines: Core, which is grain-free, Simple Solutions, which has limited ingredients, and Super 5 Mix, which contains grains and lots of other ingredients.

The first thing i would do is have your vet run a fecal, to rule out any giardia or parasites.

If the fecal is clear, you might want to look into Honest Kitchen products. These are dehydrated raw formulas. Many of our FG members who were having similar problems have had great success with HK Embark. You just add water to the product. many people who've tried it say the poop firms up overnight.

[Clint]

Yeah, I'm just doing a little trial and error.  I don't mind buying the wellness because my friend wants to change her labs food too, so we are splitting the bag.  I bought the Super 5 mix because the Blackwood was fine, so I don't think it is a grain or ingredient issue.  I guess I should have mentioned that he is going to the vet tomorrow for his next round of shots.  So, he will be checked and all then.

 

I would really like to stick with kibble.  I am hating life, as it is, having to mix the pumpkin in with his food now...lol.  I feel pretty confident he can eat kibble because he did fine on the Blackwood even when I did the minor switch from the Blackwood mix the breeder gave me to the 2000.  Do you have a kibble recommendation?  Part of the reason I picked Wellness is because they do have such an extensive line of products.  If it does end up becoming an ingredient issue they have the limited ingredient line and as he gets older they have adult versions of all the lines.

 

 In an ideal world I would just like to pour the right amount of kibble in his bowl and as he gets older just switch to the adult version of the same food.  I really hate mixing kibble and pumpkin at 5am and he won't eat it unless they are mixed up.

[Hazel & Chester Wayte]

Chester has been on Orijen large breed Puppy for probably a month.. I would say it was about 3 weeks before his poops normalized..or became 'firmer'.

We were on Iams for large breeds before- He really prefers the taste of the Orijen.Chester had a few 'pudding style' poop during the transition but they didn't seem as bad as what you described. We didn't have to add pumpkin.

I would listen to Karen's advice.

Good Luck.

 

[David E]

I never got Orijen or Acana to work no matter how hard I tried. I ended up giving up and I can fully understand the hating life part of dealing with runny poops.

I also tried Acana as it wasn't supposed to be as rich and it was a little better but still far from solid.

Currently Monty is 11 months and having success with Taste of the Wild, which is nice as it's actually cheaper. I do add a couple of frozen raw nuggets to it each meal as i find that helps a LOT.

Also had similar results with Great Life and Nature Valley's Instinct. I still find the more kibble I feed, the softer it gets. For busy mornings, I have a freeze-dried raw food in a bag which I can't remember the name of. It's expensive so I add only half a cup for the mornings I don't want to deal with anything from the fridge. I think it works as it's ingredients list bone meal and I'm guessing it's that which firms up the poops. Sorry I can't remember the name of it, I get it at Bark in a yellow bag.

 

[Clint]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Strangely his BM's have looked good to great today.  However, he would not eat any of his food until this evening and when he did eat he only ate about a cup of food.  I just walked into the kitchen with him and he ate a few mouthfuls, but stopped and came out with me as soon as I went back to the couch.

 

On a brighter note...we did go for our second walk around the neighborhood and he is doing MUCH better on a leash and we started to work on sitting today (I know I am moving slowly).  I will say that he picked up sit much more quickly than he took to the leash.  He will even sit when I do just the hand gesture sometimes.

[Clint]

That makes a lot of sense.  My friend that owns the chocolate lab in my pics and videos spent over $1000 on her lab's GI problems.  This dog had diarrhea, vomiting, and loss of appetite at times.  They ran all kinds of tests and put her on all kinds of 10 day runs of antibiotics and crap.  Nothing ever solved the problem.  Once the lab hit 5.5-6 months she cleared right up.

 

I had never thought of the water thing.  Once again thanks for the good suggestions!

[Clint]

*Update*

 

I never could get the Orijen to work.  I even tried Wellness large breed puppy with no luck.  I went back to plain old Blackwood 2000 without pumpkin and he has been good.  Even without pumpkin he has been good.  My only issue is he goes so much on Blackwood!  Oh well, I guess I'll just have to deal with it...LOL

[Theresa]

My dog didn't do great on Orijen either.  Not as bad as you puppy but still very soft mushy stools.  I recently started adding in Taste of the Wild which has more fiber and there has been a HUGE improvement.  Right now he's eating 1/2 of each type.  I was planning on switching completely to TOTW but is doing really well now and am afraid to jinx it!  LOL

[David E]

I found TOTW to be one of the better kibbles for my doodle. One issue though is that he seemed to go a LOT, which got to be tedious and it was still a little 'soft' towards the end if you know what I mean.

I've struggled since we got Monty with food. He's 13months now. We've just got another puppy also, this one's a schnoodle and seems to have a slightly stronger digestive system. He's using up the TOTW I have left! With Monty however, I now use Instinct raw patties and supplement with raw chicken (drumsticks, thighs, quarters etc). I give a whole raw egg and duck/turkey necks every now and again as well.  Monty's stool is a THIRD the amount, always well formed etc. It's awesome, plus he goes 1 to 2 times a day now instead of 3 to 4.

Also, check the ingredients of the Instinct raw patties and you'll be really impressed. I can also now give treats (bullys etc) to Monty and he can handle them whereas before, I'd be asking for trouble. I was also trying half kibble half raw for a while, but it didn't seem to work so well. I was trying to save time and make life easy for myself by using a kibble (plus the raw patties are pretty pricey) but I was just creating more work for myself at the other end...lol. So, I do my best to feed raw and supplement with patties to ensure a balanced diet. 

Anyone with a sensitive stomach doodle should give it a go, it's worked wonders for Monty.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

So glad you've found something that works well for Monty!