Puppy poo

[Erin B]

Hi! My goldendoodle is named Butternut. She is 11 weeks old, and came home at 7 weeks with mushy stool. The mushy stool progressed quickly into all-night diarrhea (up urgently 5-7 times per night). 

The vet did several fecal float tests and did not find anything, so they sent me home with a probiotic and kaopectate. Then one of Butternut's littermates (who had not left the breeder yet) also had poop issues and tested positive for giardia. So my vet put Butternut on Panacur for five days. When that didn't help, he suggested Tylan powder for 7 days (which is an antibiotic). Her loose stools and diarrhea completely resolved after the first dose (!), but came back within 48 hours after the 7 days were up. 

During the 7 days that she was on Tylan, I switched her food from the breeder's Puppy Chow (ew) to Orijen Large Puppy. Of course I have since read in this group that the large puppy formula is not needed, but I didn't know that when I bought it. :) 

After the diarrhea returned, the vet suggested to put her back on Tylan powder and give her three full weeks on the Orijen with no treats or anything else by mouth, to give her insides time to adjust, then take her off the powder and see what happens. We are almost two weeks into that. I got Proviable after reading about it here, and she had her first dose yesterday. Her poop is currently 100% perfect. 

If I take her off the powder in another week and the diarrhea returns, what is my next step? Food switch? To what? I read a lot of good reviews of Taste of the Wild pacific stream, but I know they are owned by a company with a bad recall record, so ... I guess that's a bad idea. I am so anxious about it. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I absolutely would not switch foods again right now and definitely not to TOTW. If you do switch, it should be to a high quality limited ingredient food. The food is not causing the diarrhea, as she had it when she came home. This is one reason we advise that you never change their diets for at least two weeks after they come home, because giardia is common and food changes just add one more variable to the confusion when you are trying to figure things out. But now that she's on Orijen, keep her on it; it takes time for an immature digestive system to adjust to a high protein grain free food after being on something like Puppy Chow, full of corn and fillers.

I am absolutely certain that your puppy had giardia, even though it didn't show up in the fecal tests. It can often be difficult to diagnose, as the cysts are not present in every sample. I am very glad your vet treated with Panacur and not with metronidazole as some vets do. 

Make sure you are giving the Tylan at two hours apart from the Proviable, and longer is better. Continue the Proviable for at least a few weeks after the meds are discontinued. If the diarrhea comes back after the Tylan is discontinued, have your vet run another fecal test, and try to bring several different samples to be tested. Another course of Panacur would be my next step if the issues continue.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, have you been taking steps to make sure that anything the poop touches is disinfected, including any outdoors areas?That's essential, to prevent them from becoming reinfected. Use wet wipes on their butts after they go, too. 

[Erin B]

I pick up the poop immediately and wipe her behind when we come inside. Is there a way to disinfect the ground where the poop landed? Sorry if that sounds stupid. :) 

My plan is Proviable in the morning, Tylan at dinner time.

Thanks for all the advice!  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

How cold is it in your area? Giardia can live in soil and on other outdoor surfaces at temperatures above freezing. I had a foster with giardia and my vet advised me to spray the ground wherever he pooped with a 10:1 water & bleach mixture. 

We've had members here whose dogs had giardia following the dogs around in the yard and catching the poop on paper plates, lol. 

[Erin B]

Oh lord. Paper plates. Haha. Well, if that's what it takes. :) 

Oops! I wrote a post and it disappeared. I live in Virginia. It has been cold here, but is supposed to be back above freezing a few days this week. 

I will do the bleach thing. Good idea. 

[Deborah Brown]

All I want to add it that it seems that both people and animals need antibiotics for a longer time period to kill an infection.  We used to get away with 5-7 days but I'm seeing 2-3 weeks the norm these days.  Let's hope the Tylan does the trick.  I'm glad Butternut is feeling better. 

[Erin B]

Thank you so much! I have been reading up on Tylan powder and it's interesting stuff. Apparently nobody knows *exactly* why it works on some dogs' diarrhea, but it does -- but only while the dog is taking it. It doesn't cure whatever the underlying cause is. (At least that's my understanding). Kind of weird and magical! Hopefully I can get to the root of the problem so she doesn't have to keep taking it for much longer, although it seems to be a pretty safe medicine as far as these things go. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

My Jack has Inflammatory Bowel Disease and is on Tylan pretty much permanently. It's a pretty safe drug. It's actually an ingredient in those products some people use to get rid of tear-staining in light colored dogs. 

Tylan is used off-label in dogs, it's designed for use in chickens and other livestock. 

I have not heard of Tylan being effective for giardia or other parasites; in dogs, it's mainly used for diarrhea caused by a bacterial imbalance. Lots of IBD dogs are on it. 

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

We had to use the plate method…after going through countless rounds of giardia..you will do anything to get things cleared up! You also want to make sure Butternut isn't sniffing poop (or butts), either her own, or any animal poop that can be in your yard..giardia spores can be inhaled and spread that way as well! You have great advice here..basically, don't switch the food, or add any new ANYTHING..treats, bones, etc.  And also, please remember to compensate the antibiotic with a probiotic..it is very important to help the gut reproduce the good bacteria in the intestines!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Butternut is adorable! You already have the best advice.  I hope what you are doing clears her right up.

[Erin B]

Butternut update! I tried taking her off the Tylan powder several times over the course of a couple months (she is now 5 months old) while still feeding her Orijen Large Puppy. She would always get the mushy poops and then diarrhea starting about 36 hours after her last dose. She had a couple more fecal tests -- always negative for parasites. She still was getting her Proviable DC every day. I had bought the biggest bag of Orijen because I was SO SURE it was going to be the best food for her (live and learn and be conservative next time!) and I decided to keep her on it, with the Tylan, until it was used up -- she loved eating it and with even 1/8tsp of Tylan once a day her tummy was fine. 

ANYWAY, finally the Orijen ran out and I switched her over to Canidae Pure Puppy Foundations, gave her a few weeks on it, then decided to try taking her off the Tylan again. So her last dose was Monday night.

It is now Thursday (almost 60 hours since her last dose) and the poop remains perfect! I am so hopeful that it was just a case of the food not agreeing and that she will continue to be better. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm so glad the Canidae formula is working for her. I'd continue the probiotics for a while just to be safe.