Raw and Kibble. To mix, or not to mix...

[Karen & Maple]

As to the claim that kibble digests at different rates than raw, and therefore stresses the GI in some way, or affects absorption, or causes raw food to sit too long in the stomach...where's the science, what's the deal?

M has fought me on eating kibble since forever. She loves Stella and Chewy's. It is $$$$$. Not that I'm ruling it out, to be honest I'm just more inclined towards a raw diet if it's complete and doable. But is there real harm in mixing the two?
Or for that matter- What about mixing cooked meat with kibble re: digestion?

I thought this was interesting:

https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2015/01/08/digest-this-kibble-ma...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, I'm glad to see that there is finally, finally some true and accurate information on a raw feeding website. That's a first. Almost everything else I've seen on any of them is complete and total tripe, pun intended. (And that includes the nonsense about the short digestive tracts. Yes, carnivores, like cats, have the shortest digestive tracts. Dogs, however, have digestive tracts whose lengths are about midway between ours and those of cats, because unlike cats, they are NOT obligate carnivores, lol. Sorry, those sites always make me crazy.)

There is no earthly reason why digestive rates matter. I eat salad (raw food) and chicken (cooked food) at the same meal, as I'm guessing most of us here do, and it doesn't cause any kind of GI stress, lol. Heck, we eat raw and cooked together every time we eat a burger with lettuce and tomato on it, lol. There is no science anywhere that shows that eating raw foods at the same time as cooked foods is harmful, and that applies to dogs as well as humans.

I'd say at least 25% of the people here in TFG have at some point added cooked meat or eggs to kibble as well, with no ill effects. It makes absolutely no difference. 

[Karen & Maple]

Yeah I suppose I have heard/ met people that argue not mixing certain types of food (for humans) and I'm like 'ok, maybe your right, but I think I'm good not over thinking it' lol

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It never made sense to me when the raw feeders would say that the raw food digested faster than cooked or processed food, because the cooked or processed food is already somewhat broken down, or "denatured", as the raw feeders also love to say, so of course it would digest faster. That's what digestion does, breaks the food down into it's basic components: carbs into sugars, proteins into amino acids, fats into lipids. The cooked and processed food has had a head start, lol. 

[Nancy and Finley]

I give my 2 1/2 year old doodle and my rescued 2 1/2 year old Cocker spaniel a mix of raw, kibble and cooked.  My doodle has had the combo since I moved him off puppy kibble.  He went on Stella and Chewy's and Acana or Origin kibble.  He also gets fruits, veggies and cooked chicken or other raw meat or fish.  I always make sure the meat is as lean as possible and try to give organic as much as possible.  So my routine is to give the freeze dried raw (just switched to Primal Duck or Turkey and Sardine) in the am.  In the evening its organic Party Animal canned (we live in a dry climate and my vet recommended canned early on due to its moisture content), chicken or salmon or other lean meat on top.  I also use organic vegetable baby food in pouches or jars.  Its an easy way to get the veggies in cause they don't really like raw veggies.  I also will cook sweet potatoes.  So they get a variety and seem to be doing very well.  I give them digestive enzymes and pre and pro-biotics, too.  This was recommended by the holistic vet since my doodle puppy like eating feces.  It  keeps the right balance in his tummy. 

My friend who has 4 cockers also feeds her dogs this way and her dogs don't have the usual cocker ear or stomach issues. 

I may overdo the variety, but they have good stools and aren't overweight.  Well, maybe they could lose a half pound (very has never mentioned this) but I think it's due to the treats they get between meals for good behavior! 

Hope you find the best answer for your doodle!!!  I try to remember that its also ok to switch periodically from one good food to another.  I'm told it's good for them. 

[Karen & Maple]

Omgosh! Nancy- get out of my head! Seriously you sound just like me, (scary) sounds like you've spent much time as me on this. (But perhaps not as much as the other Karen) perhaps it's crazy but seems I've taken a similar approach as of late. Except the baby food. Thanks, good idea.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Most raw vegetables aren't digestible anyway; cooking breaks down the plant cellulose and makes the nutrients available, so cooked veggies are more nutritious anyway. 

[Shari Becker]

I feed my dog either cooked meat or raw because for reasons that are inexplicable to all, she gets ear infections on any kibble ... on any dry food that sits in the cupboard. Even ZiwiPeak or Real Food. 

And yes, I could buy a second car for the annual cost of feeding my dog.

Lots of raw feeders will insist that you need to divide the kibble and the raw, and YET, Stella and Chewy's freeze dried toppers are raw, and are sold specifically for putting on top of your kibble. It makes no sense, right? But even the store where I buy my raw insists that you have to feed the raw separate from the cooked or kibble. They claim your dog is more likely to get sick from raw bacteria if it is mixed with kibble. 

After three years of feeding a dog with allergies and a super sensitive stomach, I say, do what works. Try it out and see how it goes. 

Lexi gets cooked meat, cooked sweet potatoes, cooked vegetables, apple slices and watermelon. She gets Stella and Chewy's, Primal, and sometimes we give her long-term frozen raw pieces of meat. As long as she's not itching, she's pooping properly and normally, I don't worry about it. 

[Karen & Maple]

That's true about the Topper. When you don't give the Stella and Chewy's or primal, do you add bone meal or supplements? I will say her poop has never been better. Although smaller and less frequent which had me wondering if she was getting enough. But the kcal amount is the same as when she was getting the kibble. Interesting.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I was told by one of Jack's internal medicine specialists that higher carbohydrate percentages (and/or lower protein percentages, same difference, when one goes up the other goes down) will often cause greater stool volume in dogs. Which makes sense to me. So if her protein intake is higher now, (or her carb intake is lower now), that could be the reason for the reduction in poop. :)

[Karen & Maple]

Yeah I totally get that. She was on Orijen six fish. Which of the few different kibble she's tried she liked the best, which isn't saying much. And her poop was good, but more of it. The guaranteed analysis protein Min is 38 %
S&C surf and turf frozen is only 15% ? On that topic- what do they mean by Minimum?
Although the I've ruined the data on the Orijen because I caved and let her have added meat and veggies :[
That whole saga began when she had bouts of sickness as a pup and had to be on a bland diet. Never wanted kibble after that, and I admit I was weak.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You can't compare the macronutrient percentages between the S & C frozen and kibble. The surf & turf frozen patties are 68% water. Most kibbles are 10% water. :)

Suffice to say that the patties are much higher in protein than any kibble. 

[Karen & Maple]

So they don't provide #'s -' there's this much protein in this amount' dispite whatever other ingredients there are ?