DIFFERENT TRAINING STRATEGIES AND TRAINERS FOR DIFFERENT DOGS

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I though a lot last night about this, and I decided to post this, probably to be sure everyone has a level set on the issues with Murphy, and why I'm taking the training approach with him that will definitely look different from many more traditional methods.  Murph is a dog who went through the AKC Puppy Star class and passed with no problems.  He does very well at following basic commands in a sterile environment.  That's why he's great with commands at home.  Without distractions he looks like any other dog, and treat/clicker training approaches work well.  He'll sit, stay, down, recall with no problem AT HOME.  I remember the day he "graduated" from the AKC class and completely "lost it" with a stranger on the way out of the facility.  So, I hired the trainer for some individual sessions.  She's a positive reinforcement only trainer, and we brought her dog in as the distraction.  The first time he saw the dog he went a "little crazy", but after a few repetitions (and rewards for no reaction) he was just fine.  Then again outside of the training room, he was out of control.  So next I moved to a correction (and praise) approach and started using the training collar (choke chain).  I trained him every day for a month in the park with varying levels of distraction.  It just didn't work for ME with THIS DOG.  I needed to have a local trainer.  My key objective needed to be to eliminate the reactiveness so that Murphy could live a "normal dog life".  I needed to be able to control him so that we could again at least go for walks.  For months he has not been able to go anywhere other than the back yard (on leash) for potty breaks or to the Park for our very structured training sessions.  Last week I was able to start to walk him in our cul-de-sac where the distractions are very limited.  Baby steps. 
So I found a different trainer (who works with my Vet and specializes in "difficult" dogs).  He asked me what I wanted out of the training, and I told him I wanted a dog who would trust and respect me enough to obey my commands and react appropriately to strangers and other dogs.  I wanted the training to incorporate fair corrections (when necessary) and rewards when they were earned.  After spending some time with Ben, I decided that he would be the right fit for Murph and I (given the issues we were facing).  I did say that I ultimately wanted him to get his CGC because that incorporates all the things that I wanted for Murphy....a well balanced dog who can be relied upon to be a "good citizen".  After working with Murph, Ben felt that the "commands" associated with CGC would be a "piece of cake", the reactiveness would be the major challenge. I have no thoughts of any advanced obedience work for Murph at this time...again baby steps.  So we've really focused on that.  That's why we spend so much time training around lots of distractions in the Park.  We need to move to other high distraction "venues" very soon.
Murph still goes into his uncontrolled, fixated state with some people and dogs....but at least now it's not ALL dogs and ALL strangers. Yesterday he decided to nip at the face of the trainer's German Shepherd who he has been great with in the past.  No idea where this came from.  Right now I really don't care if his position is "perfect", only that he's not trying to lunge and growl.  We'll get to the "fine tuning" when the time is right.  I have refined my training to address some of the issues with Murph.  I am now heeling him on the right which for traditional obedience is a big mistake.  It works for me (for now) because I'm a real "right sided person".  My timing is much better (faster) using my right hand, and with Murphy timing is key.  I need to correct him the minute his focus goes "in the wrong direction".  I have also changed to an Illusion Collar which worked much better for me than the regular training collar.  It stays high on his neck, so I'm not always trying to pull it up, and it's always in the right place when we encounter an unexpected distraction.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'm doing some things that would be viewed as different (even "wrong"), but they're starting to work, and I'm finally seeing progress.  My path may be a little different than most, but then Murph comes with his own set of unique challenges.  I have no idea if what I'm doing is the best thing, but it's where I've landed after trying several different "methods"...we'll have to see.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Oh, Linda, thank you so much. I can't wait until my Murphy is like YOUR Murphy!

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Jane - You are one awesome doodle mom. Good for you to strive for what works for you and for Murphy.

I have had two very difficult dogs in 40+ years. Each dog took a lot of work and different methods. I actually enjoy taking lessons from different trainers and putting together what works for me. My second difficult dog has been Roo. I used an e-collar with him for about a year. That combined with a lot of treat based work and prong collar. It worked for us - together. He is still an easily distracted dog, high maintenance, you might say. But I can walk him around the neighborhood without worries now. He will never be my 100% dog. But he is now a good dog (except at the front door -still a work in progress).

So you go girl - stick with it - It will be worth it.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks Maryann! To be able to walk freely around the neighborhood with Murphy is my "training dream". We're doing it "little by little". Today our little cul de sac, and tomorrow the neighborhood. It's great to hear from others who have also had "difficult" dogs. The thing about Murphy is that he is so amazing and loving with our family...there's just something that "triggers" him to react outside. We'll figure it out...I know we will. Already he is so much better. This is such a supportive group...it's keeping me "moving ahead".

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Jane - You know as I read back through these it triggered a memory of help from a trainer that helped me take a big step forward with Roo. Roo, like Murphy, does pretty darn well with commands, but the meet and greet was an ongoing problem.

Unknowingly, I had developed a bad habit. As soon as it was pointed out to me I realized that I was indeed doing exactly that. Because he was such a pistol and unreliable meeting dogs, people, whatever, I was unconciously signaling Roo to alert by clenching, tightening, whatever you want to call it, my leash hand. Roo could feel it and that signaled him to pull back and start the whole crazy thing. I conciously practiced keeping my hand loose and the leash very loose so he could not feel me as easily. Then one day I made the leap of faith and tied him to my waist! With lots and lots of yummy treats in my pocket, mind you. What a difference it made. Now he focuses on me, looking right at me, if he sees something that alerts him. He is looking for the treat of course. I am now in the faze out the treat stage. Although I don't mind carrying treats with me forever, if it helps him stay calm. It has taken about five months from having it called to my attention to this stage.

May or may not be the case with you, but worth thinking about. Happy training

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This is a great point, Maryann. I know that in the past I have been guilty of tensing up whenever I was walking Murphy and spotted people (especially people with dogs) walking toward us. When I first started with this new trainer he pointed out that my body language changed completely when I spotted a distraction, and that this was going right down the leash to Murphy. So, now when we're doing our "heeling training" I try to be completely focused on my stress and confidence. That's one of the reasons I moved to right side heeling for now....I'm much more confident when he's on that side of me. I'm not ready to tie him to my waist though....I'm afraid of where I'd end up. LOL

[Kyoko]

Jane, I give you alot of credit.... I have a girl version of Murph.....Its a lot of work and require a lot of patience but I think it bonds us... Karen ( JD's Karen ) said it somewhere that " it is important for them to know what is expected of them, and what they can expect from us." This is so true.....This tells you all about the trusting relationships, you know? I think each dogs are diferent and some are more laid back than the others...And we got "the others"... LOL!! It takes long time for Charlie to get comfortable with other dogs... She is now OK to be near the dogs from Rally class, since we have been together for over 7 months now. But she will bark at the dogs from her Agility class, since we got some new dogs in the class now... She is coming along, though... But I think some of that will be just who she is... nervous around the people and the dogs she doesn't know.... I just hope she will be able to warm up to them within shorter period than 7 months as we continue to work. Good luck with Murph!!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks, Kyoko. I'm so impressed with what you've been able to accomplish with Charlie. I'm sure it took a real leap of faith to enroll her in Rally. I'm sure that's helping her in so many ways to get more comfortable around new people and dogs. Once Murphy's reactiveness is under better control, I need to "find him a job" too.

[Kyoko]

It's taking a long long time.... My kids laugh at this, but Charlie has been in school for almost all her life !! LOL!
( ever since the puppy K) When she first entered the Rally class, she was a mess. She did beginner Rally class like 3 times... :-( and her trainer and I were both skeptical about her entering the agility class, because there are a lot of off leash sessions..... BUt we are taking a lots of baby steps to get her more confident. Murphy can do it, too!!!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks Caitlin and Albus!

[shelly]

Oh my goodness! Where have I been??? W-O-R-K! I stumbled on this new group by accident! I am so excited reading through all of the posts. Jane.... YOU are amazing! I feel like a real slacker with correcting the issues we've had with Tori and people coming to the house... I just can't devote the time daily to work on it! I know, I know.... consistency is the key, I will now make it a point to read this new group for ideas and advice... the trainer we met with in the summer, never really worked out and I'm embarrassed to say, school started and I kind of dropped the ball! But I am going to make it my new year's resolution to work harder as you so evidently are doing with Murph! Thanks for the motivation you have passed along!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thank you Shelly! I remember when I was working....it was so hard to get the time to do ANYTHING. If you wanted to work on the sit/stay training it really doesn't have to take that much time. With 10 to 15 minutes every day, you can actually do a lot. With Murph it's the "heel training" that takes a lot of my time, but the sit/stay is pretty easy and not very time consuming. I'm glad you found the group!