Having some issues

[Holly Paterniti]

So I have started to use the Thundershirt with Bear and it seems to be helping quite a bit. 

 

Today, for the first time we had taken Bear up with us to the ice cream place we usually go and he did quite well with the gentle leader and Thundershirt on.  Although my husband is not all for the Thundershirt being on him outside the house. 

 

He was doing really well without growling at people who came close to us and right away took to kids (as usual).  We got him his Dogster to eat and he finished it quietly even though people walked past him.  I had thought we were safe and totally out of him growling the mean growl at people.

 

Well as we were finishing up with our ice creams, this cute little older man came up and said, "what a cute puppy" and Bear went into his attack mode.  I got him to stop, but I felt so bad and we apologize to him, which he was saying it was ok........but to have all those people look at us like Bear is a menance really bothered me.

 

I know we need to take him to training and I really want to, but at this time the money is not there.  He only does this when men approach and not women.

 

Can anyone please tell me (besides saying to take him to a training at this point) how I can get him to stop.  He is such a sweet boy, but with himbeing big and all.....he does scare the crap out of people who are not use to bigger dogs or use to him :(

 

THANKS!!!  I really appreciate it :)

 

 

 

 

[Jane Smith]

I suggest getting the book dog training for dummies. I just happen to be reading it right now. It talks about dealing with your exact issue. I got it on my nook for 9.99 and i think you can buy it for $20 at barnes and noble. Good luck.

[Holly Paterniti]

I did end up buying it through my Kindle :)

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

 

 

I have a lot of questions

Bear is now 3 or 4 years old?

My first question.  Does Bear always growl at men OR was this because he was eating?  From what I am reading, it happens even when he is not eating.  Correct?

Has he bitten?  Let me ask you this, " If he were not leashed to you, would he have been able to bite that man?

Oh geesh, maybe someone else has an at home answer, but growling and biting at Bear's age is going to be more difficult to correct than just a home remedy, for example, a Thundershirt which I think is a good tool, but not to be used in replacement for training a dog who has serious issues such as these. 

 

Growling and Biting in public needs to always be taken seriously!

Has Bear ever been to obedience training?  If so, keep Bear in a heal ALWAYS in public.  Learn Bear's body language.  NEVER trust him.  He may be cute and your dog, but don't trust him with others safety.  I hate to see you loose your dog because of something like this.   Maybe I am over reacting because I do not have enough information.  Hopefully you can provide more.

[Holly Paterniti]

Bear is 3 years old and he only growls at men when he is not eatinf because he was completely done with his ice cream by the time the guy walked over. 

 

He has never bitten anyone because we are always there with him because he is a dog, I would never trust dogs completely no matter what the breed.

 

And actually there were men who walked past him as we were waiting and he did not even flinch or start to growl.  I am thinking it is partly because they startle him because that guy kind of startled me too.

 

[Cathy w/Shiloh~Cody]

I saw this similiar scenario on one of the TV dog training shows. It probably will require professional help. But on the show, they had the owners give men the dog meets or sees a treat. It took repetition and time, but at some point the

dog was suppose to associate these male strangers with good things. The strangers could not give the treat if the dog had already reacted badly or growled at them. You do not want to accidently reward that behaviour.They did not get close enough to the dog to be bitten or snapped at. The strangers tossed it gently from a distance close to the dog and they did not make eye contact. They set this up ahead of time, which is hard to do in real life. Meaning they walked past men who already had been given treats to toss. Good luck-they did mention this is a tough problem to resolve, and it also happens sometimes within the family. Example, the dog was ok with the wife and kids but snapped at the husband.

[Kyoko]

Holly, I am wondering if this runs in the family? Charlie does not like people she does not know, and dogs she does not know being too close to her. She will bark and show her teeth, however, she is backing off while she is barking, not lunging forward. So, I am thinking that her aggression is fear based. When we were at this dog school ( I truly trusted the trainer's knowledge in regard to the dogs, but her people skill was terrible therefore we no longer go there.) the trainer said that some dogs are hard wired like that. Sort of like personality. Anyway, I found this woman by the name of Leslie McDewitt, who wrote a book called" Controll Unleashed" which is the dog training book gear toward to the reactive, fearful, aggressive, etc.. dogs. She also have Yahoo group with many discussions in regard to her technique, etc.. which I found it to be very benificial. Her approach is totally positive reinfocement and shaping based, which I like. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CU_Dogs/  Charlie is very obedient since she has gone to the school for almost all her life and earned Rally tilte, etc.... but she is very very nervous and sensitive to things she is not sure of. I wonder if Bear is like that? I wonder if any of their siblings are like that?

This summer, I was really encouraged by this group and really worked on healing in normal public places not only for the Rally purpose, but for the regular life situations. For regular walk, I graduated her from gentle leader to martingale collar, and put her leash through my belt to mimic off leash walking. And when I take her to the public / crowded places such as community fest, I put a gentle leader on her. I am also very causious with strangers, and am not ashamed to say " She is not very good with strangers, so she will probably bark at you." when people ask if they can pet her, etc...to discourage people from trying to get too close.  Since i already know her weakness, I try not to set her up for failure by giving her a space she needs..... Good luck with Bear, and may be we can talk more about this....

[Holly Paterniti]

I am thinking the same thing too Kyoko......it is only when he is scared.  We had a house full of people and I did use the Thundershirt and the Gentle Leader until he calmed down, which took a lot less time than in the past without the shirt.

 

I really am thinking it is because he is nervous and maybe he needs more socialization.  I will check out the website you have given me :)

[Kyoko]

This woman is awesome. You would love it. She lives in Philly, and I plan to visit her and take short lessons from her once I put a new roof on my house. ( budget, budget, budget!!!)

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Thanks for answering my questions.  This one is tough. I live with it everyday myself.  As for the strange men throwing cookies at your dog.  Good luck finding every strange man to throw 13lbs of cookies a day at your dog. Just saying.   I've tried.  I just could not find enough men   I think how this method works is when your dog becomes so fat from the massive amounts of treat dispensers it can no longer move because of obesity.  For us it did not work. One trainer told me it would take months and years with this technique with many different men and in the end, it still probably not work. 

Kyoko, loved the new site.  I've bookmarked it for future use. 

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Ours are also fear related in most cases.

Here is what we do.  We do get out and get some socialization done.  We keep her near us around strangers.  She stays in a heal at our side at ALL TIMES.  

We do some greetings and many days are successful.  We watch all body language.   Like you said, you just don't know what man brings on the fear.  I've had woman bring it on too.

 

It is NEVER going to be 100% so I don't let anyone tell me there is a cure.  I accept her for who she is, what she needs from me, and I love her.

It is work.  We have GREAT days and bad days but we get better all the time.  

Personally, I think this is way beyond any average dog owner.   A basic obedience class does wonders.  It really is not much more than a Thundershirt. I know this is not what you asked for, but dealing with this for a year and a half--I found  a trainer, well it worked the best.  A dog like this needs professional care and guidance.  In your home, keep her muzzled with strangers.   The cost of a bite and the consequences a bite can bring, is much worse than the cost of a class.  My husband is unemployed for over a year, but we weighed the cost benefits and the love of our dog, and found this the only way. 

For me, knowing what I SHOULD BE DOING and how to handle all kinds of situations helps ME help HER.

He needs your protection around strangers. 

[Adina P]

I'm not sure this is easily solvable without professional help.  But it all depends on your time and commitment.  If you can follow directions to a TEE and be very concerted in your effort, taking Bear out daily for obedience training (just you and him on your own) and working him appropriately in many places...WHILE keeping him AWAY from strangers who might trigger him to react until he's really good at obedience and reliable.  Then I think it's totally fixable.  He may never like certain people, but he can learn to obey and mind your leadership when he's under command.

 

I believe very strongly that this not a 'socialization' issue.  Or maybe it had to do with early socialization, but the lack of early socialization is not solved by adult socialization.  It is solved by training.  Simply exposing a dog to stuff he doesn't like won't make him LIKE it.  But training him to respond in a certain way with rewards and consequences for doing so/not doing so WILL make him tolerate such instances.  But again, I think it's important to NOT take him out in public and allow him to be approached by anyone you think could trigger him in the meantime.  Apologies won't be enough if he does bite and at this point he doesn't know how else to handle himself...so he can't have the freedom to choose how to do so.  It puts him in a bad situation and YOU in a bad situation and just gives him practice doing the WRONG thing.  And dogs are pretty good at repeating what they know...so keep him home unless you are out SOLEY AND ONLY for training and your whole outing is focused on him.

[Adina P]

HOW expensive are the training options you've looked into.  A good training class need not cost more than $200 max.  And that can be saved up over time if you're really strapped for cash.  In other words you don't have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a private behaviorist or anything.  I'd be happy to see if any trainers that I know of are near you and what they charge.  But you can do it on your own if you are really good at following directions, sticking to a program, and following through.  Realistically you'd need that ANYWAY even if you went to a training class.  The trainer doesn't train your dog...YOU do.  So as long as you are committed to daily practice and following a set training plan, you can do it with a really great book or DVD and perhaps a little correspondence with a trainer who is feeling like helping out someone who WANTS to get the job done but simply can't afford it.