Hawthorne

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

I finally brought myself to watch the actual video from the tragedy in Hawthorne, California.  For anyone who may not know what I am talking about, here is the link to the news story talking about that video:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Witness-of-Hawthorne-Dog-Sh...

As far as the video itself ... disturbing is an understatement.  It has to be one of the saddest and most awful things I have ever seen.  So terribly heartbreaking.  Still, I'm glad I watched it.  We cannot afford to ignore this.

Mr. Rosby, the innocent bystanders that were traumatized by this event, the innocent shopkeeper and other, uninvolved offers being targeted in the backlash and everyone else affected by this senseless and despicable act of violence ... and most of all, Max ... I would like to keep them in our thoughts and prayers this weekend, as we celebrate our own freedom with our doodles and other family member and loved ones.

Cheers everyone, and happy 4th.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Thanks Joanne, I enjoy being in the mix.  :)   You are right, I should have done it as a discussion.  I just didn't know it would go that way.

I think the bottom line is that both of these men did a number of things wrong.  Both of them could have prevented the tragedy by doing any of those things differently.  I worry more about the mistakes by the police, however, because the suspect's error's resulted only in the death of a single dog (his own).  While that is indeed tragic, it more or less stops there.  Police, on the other hand, come in contact with dogs every day.  I worry that by focusing on what the other guy did wrong, the police lose sight of what they did wrong and will therefore continue to do it.  

Part of what makes it especially tragic is that whether a dog is going to attack is not a subjective matter. Dogs are evolutionarily rational, transparent, honset and predicable.  Dogs do so much for us, it seems to me it is not asking too much for someone whose job involves contact with dogs to be at least moderately proficient in "speaking dog".  (Incidentally, Stanley Coren's books on the topic are very good).  People think dogs "just attack" out of nowhere, but they don't.  They communicate first - people just don't understand it.

G-d knows I have been attacked and bitten by my share of dogs.  Mostly as a kid, when I was still learning how to communicate with them.  I wish I could have been in this officer's place, because it's so obvious to me how he should have responded.  Dogs mirror back the emotions you give them.  I am not scared of dogs, so it never would have occurred to me to tense up and put my hand on my weapon like he did.  I would have understood that I was dealing with a big, powerful animal that was understandably concerned about what was going on and that deserved to be communicated with respectfully and in its own language.  Never in a million years would I lunge at it and try to grab its collar like the officer did.  (Like most dog people I know, I wouldn't even try to pet a dog I don't know on the top of the head - especially one that is already agitated).  I would have let the other officer handle the suspect, and meanwhile I would have turned sideways and squatted down to the dog's level to let him know I was not a threat.  I would have let him smell my hands and get comfortable for a minute or two.  Then, once he was more calm and ready to follow me, I would have taken the leash and led him to a safe location.  Or, if I didn't know how to communicate with dogs, I would at least realize that and defer to someone who did.  What this guy did would be like me giving orders in English to a suspect that does not understand English and then shooting him when he didn't comply.

Of course there are also situations in which for one reason or another, dogs do attack.  A few months ago I was standing on the corner answering my phone when a huge pit bull on a flexi leash lunged at Lola, tail down in full-out attack mode.  Fortunately I was able to jump in the middle and give him a knee to the chest as he was lunging.  That was a split-second decision by me, and it was the right one.  I have no doubt that if I hadn't done that, it would have been the end of poor little Lola.  And If more force had been necessary to protect myself and Lola, I wouldn't have hesitated to use it.

Similarly, I recall an incident where a dog was giving agression signs to Lola, and I told the owner to control his dog.  And yes, he was offended and insisted that I was wrong.  I very seriously doubt I was wrong, but even if I and been, unlike the officer in Hawthorne, I did not use deadly force and I did not make the situation worse by adding fearful, unstable energy of my own.  Yes, there are times when deadly force is necessary - but when people shoot first and are wrong, that is when headlines like this one or Oscar Pistorius happen.

[F, Calla & Luca]

No, I don't think there is a correlation necessarily but logic diesn't always apply when urgency and fear are in play, Jay.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

I do wish, this would have been a discussion and not a blog.  So many good points and great arguments.  Love having an attorney added to our DK mix  :)

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Most of you know, I had a huge, goofy, Mastiff -Lab mix before I had Spud.  The Sheriffs arrived to the wrong driveway when a neighbor called.  Taken back, I quickly went out the door to see what they wanted.  Of course, so did my dog who happened to never be leashed and always was there to greet anyone who pulled in right along with me. 

The Sheriff screamed, " Restrain your dog, Restrain your dog, Restrain your dog"   I replied, " Oh, he wont hurt you he is just..... "   They screamed the command again and went for their weapons.  I quickly said, RIDE and off he went into the back of my car. I have no doubt, Pete would have been shot.   In split second time though, an owner who knows the dog, knows it wont attack, but do the police?   10 seconds?  Really, If I was charged and I had a weapon, I wonder?  Concealed carry in my state... well I wonder?  But, I learned a lesson that day.  Keep my dog safe. 

Another story.  I was walking my 15 day old baby, in a papoose just down the block.  Another huge dog ran and attacked the papoose, similar to a dog attacking a package the mailman would carry. It WAS HORRIBLE.  The owners were so angry with me because I panicked and complained.  Did I know the dog was not going to kill my 8lb baby? NO!   I do know, in that situation, I would have.......  

I guess it is the moment.  The situation.  The environment.  No, I am not condoning this at all, but I've experienced those 10 seconds.   For my Mastiff situation, I blame ME!  For the Baby situation, I blame them.  For this innocent Rottie, I blame the owner.  

Sadly, in all the situations, the OWNER has the responsibility to restrain the dog. To keep their dog SAFE

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Interesting article I came across.  While I definitely do not agree with everything in here, some of I might be enlightening - including the explanation about children and dogs.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/how_did_americas_police_...

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

I think it is very likely that the police feared him and his dog more because of his past.  In fact I think they may have let their feelings about him affect their judgment about his dog, and that may well have contributed to the shooting.  But if that is what happened, I think it was a deadly mistake.  In my experience at least, good people sometimes have dangerous, aggressive dogs, and bad people sometimes have the sweetest, most gentle dogs in the world.  Unless the owner's bad behavior relates directly to the dog (i.e., Michael Vick), I see no reason to infer a correlation between the owner's bad behavior and the dog's propensity for agression.  Am I mistaken?

[F, Calla & Luca]

I see the comments of Chief Oliver as wise too. Of course the suspect's history does not take away his rights but brings up two other issues. One is the suspects motivation. Was he trying to provoke an incident of some kind? Two, we are al influenced by past experience. did the police fear him and the dog more because they knew of his past? So his history with the police department is relevant in those ways although perhaps they would be in admissible in a court of law : )

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Still thinking about Chief Oliver.  In general he seems like a voice of reason.  You get the sense that he truly cares not just about his department but about the members of the community, that he understands that he is a public servant and is accountable to the people. Almost like he sees himself as a father figure who is responsible for mediating the disparate perspectives of those he serves.  He takes responsibility for the actions of his subordinates but looks to the future and focuses on how to make things better.  A throwback to times past, maybe.  A true leader.  If only everyone in a position of power were more like Chief Oliver.

It does bother me that, however, that in this case he cites the suspect's prior history with arrests, lawsuits, etc. Does he think that somehow that affects the suspect's basic constitutional rights (first amendment, fourth amendment, possible others)?  Also the perceived threat was from the dog, not the suspect - so how is the owner's past relevant?  Does he believe that a bad person is somehow more likely to have a dangerous dog - so that is why the officer may have felt that deadly force was necessary?  Doesn't make sense to me.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

I know Kyoto.  Also people need to be able to take their dogs to places where there are are lot of people, noises, exciting, etc., because that's the only way dogs learn to be socialized in those environments. Dogs are curious, social animals that like to be a part of the world around them.  It's not healthy for a dog to spend its entire life cooped up in a house or backyard, interacting only with the same people and animals day after day.  Otherwise if you take them out of course they are going to bark and cause problems.  In my neighborhood there are fireworks every Wed. and Sat. during the summer.  At first Lola got a little excited but now it's no big deal - just like a hunting dog gets used to the sound of a gun.  I'm not for one minute suggesting its a good idea to take your companion animal to a crime scene, but neither should be people have to be afraid of taking their dog for a walk just because they might come across something like that.  It's a fine balance between being careful and missing out on life.  Which is true generally, I suppose.

[Kyoko]

We were at the local county park today. I took my dogs in the evening around 8 pm, since there will be a lot of fire works in my neighborhood and won't be able to walk them. Charlie was doing something really cute, so we walked back to the car to get my phone to video tape it. Soon after we walked back to the field area, a police car came by, stopped and said something. I could not hear him, so he used the speaker/microphone to say something. Now it is too muffed and I did not understand what he said. This whole time, I kept thinking " Charlie, please don't bark. please don't bark...." Come to find out that he was only trying to tell me that my head light was on, ( being nice ) but I had this fear of if Charlie barked, he was going to shoot her. These incidents of dog being killed in their own yard, etc... make people fearful and distrusting of the officers.....