Heated Discussions, Puppy Mills, Loving Our Dogs, and Bad Feelings! PLEASE READ!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I live in Pennsylvania, which happens to be a state that has some bad laws when it comes to animals.  I have a neighbor that chains his dogs up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  You can do that in Pennsylvania as long as you provide food and shelter.  How do I know this?  Because I have called to report my neighbor a couple of times and nothing is ever done. The last time I called was because he chained up a very small dog that shouldn’t be living out in the elements. No dog should. This week, when I drove by his house, his beautiful, filthy dirty, Springer Spaniel was in the middle of the road. Fudge and Vern were going crazy in the car, but I drove by three times to see if I could get the dog to come home with me, but then the neighbor came out and got him.  I guess the dog figured with all that barking in the car, he would take his chances where he was living.  Later, I drove by to see him back on his chain. His doghouse was surrounded by mud and water from all the rain we have had, and he was stretching his chain to find a dry spot to stand.  Recently, I penned a letter to my neighbor asking him if I could help find those dogs a home or bring them a bone or walk them or something.  My other neighbor, who is one of the kindest people I know, said not to mail it, because the guy isn’t right and who knows what he would do to us or Fudge and Vern. I haven’t mailed the letter.  I don’t know what to do, because according to our laws, those dogs are being cared for, and I feel guilty because I look away when I drive by that house.

 

This week, we had a discussion on DK that got heated.  Usually, I post funny blogs and try to stay out of the fray.  I think I can count on two fingers the times I have been confrontational on DK and feel free, to correct me if I am wrong. This time I got involved. I thought about it long and hard before I posted and some have said, I hijacked the discussion because it was meant for something else.   It won’t be the first time this happened on DK and it won’t be the last. When you are standing face to face and arguing, it is easier, because you can react to body language and facial expressions.  Writing your words down gets trickier, because there is what you said in black and white, no going back, and no way to tell if you are reading more into it then you should.  It is also easier to say something in writing when you don’t have to see the hurt or anger on the face of the person standing in front of you. I don’t like fighting, although my oldest daughter and I have no problem doing it and we have had angry words, moments where I think she is the biggest idiot I know and vice versa, and phone hang-ups, but we never hang up the phone on each other without first yelling, “I love you,” and even sometimes, “I love you, but never call again,” and thirty minutes later we are back on the phone. 

 

The problem with the Internet is, once you put it out there for all to see, you are inviting people with different life experiences, different opinions, different experiences, and different hot buttons to respond.  There is no going back or calling back. That is why when people get on DK and post that they would like to breed their male dog, without knowing anything about the dog’s lineage, on a site that promotes responsible breeding by experienced professionals and spaying and neutering, sometimes it does not matter how nicely you say something, but because the response is not what the poster wants to hear, they get upset, mad, and sometimes leave DK.  This happened the other day, when someone posted that she just got a new puppy and more or less, is letting it sleep in its own pee or poop, because she needs her sleep at night.  Again, you are on a website that loves dogs, where most people make all kinds of sacrifices those first few months, and you are surprised when someone gets upset that you don’t feel like getting up at night with a puppy that can’t possibly hold its bladder or bowels for an entire night. Sure enough, someone spoke up and didn’t say, “I agree wholeheartedly. Let your dog sleep in its own filth, because you need your rest,” and that person got mad and left DK.   Sometimes, there is no way to sugarcoat the obvious.

 

This week the discussion was something different and listed a name that because I live in the same state, I just happened to recognize. Was it about Puppy mills? No, it was not, but I knew what it was and I was worried if I said nothing, someone would be out there researching and happen upon this name and open up the discussion and see adorable dogs and happy owners and think it was a great place to get a dog. What if that person got a dog from there and recommended it to another person and they got a dog and so on and so on, and because I said nothing and looked away, more money went into the pockets of people that don’t deserve to profit off of dogs.  So, I ask you, where should I have posted it on DK and would it had made a difference if I opened a new discussion? 

 

Yesterday, I saw in the news that someone in Chicago had been arrested for drop kicking a kitten between 15 to 18 feet into the air, and then signaled a “field goal” with his arms. He was laughing as they arrested him and said, “it’s just a cat,” and that they played like this all the time.  We certainly all recognize this as animal cruelty.  Then my husband came home to tell me that someone who he works with just bought a puppy at an “Amish farm’ in Lancaster, PA.  Sometimes, we don’t see this as being on the same par as drop kicking a kitten. My husband said he congratulated his co-worker because he was so thrilled and just listened while he talked about how they checked out the facility, the parents, and all the dogs were happy.  My friend bought a dog the same way and came home with bogus papers and now doubts she even has a Labradoodle.  This kind of thing happens all the time where I live.  Very nice people, looking for a dog, go in search of one, find one they can afford, visit the place, like what they see, and of course, the puppy is beyond cute, and bring the puppy home.

 

There was a time I might have done the same.  The best dog we ever had as far as temperament and training, Hershey, came from a friend of a friend, who had a Lab that accidentally got impregnated by the roving Lab in her neighborhood.  I didn’t have a clue about health testing or back yard breeders.  We could afford Hershey and our daughter wanted a dog.  Period.  Hershey lived to be thirteen, surviving on Science Diet, and no training of any kind. She never went to doggie daycare, the dog park, never pulled on a leash, got along with our cat, our rabbit, a bird, and almost every dog and person she met, and rarely was leashed when we sat in our yard. If anyone had ever told me, I should not have gotten this dog, I would have been furious.  Fudge and Vern were the first dogs I ever had that pull on a leash like two oxen pulling a wagon. Fudge reacts to almost every moving thing and Vern peed when a puppy at the groomers jumped on him.  Any dog we ever had growing up was gotten from a newspaper ad or word of mouth.  I am sure most of them were free or cheap.  No matter where these dogs came from, we loved all of them.

 

Now, I have Fudge and Vern, my wonderful heart dogs, my Doodles, and because of them, I found DoodleKisses.  When I first joined, I remember a rescue was in process for a dog named Matt.  I don’t remember all the details, but I remember how amazed I was by this community and how I rooted for Matt to find a better life.  Since I have been on this website, I have heard so many similar stories about dogs that got a second chance and some of them, not all, have been Puppy Mill dogs.  What I knew about Puppy Mills up until that point, came from TV, magazines, or newspapers, but now I was seeing individual dogs with names and faces and tragic stories and seeing that we had hero’s right here on DoodleKisses.  It was so much harder to look away.  I couldn’t turn off the TV when it got to be too much and tell myself it doesn’t happen often, that most people are kind and caring with their animals.  It was time to face the facts.

 

Last week, I did a very dumb thing. I came home to find our Cable provider’s truck in our driveway.  The guy looked legitimate; after all he had an official truck with the right logo and said he was checking out the guy who had done repairs for us the previous week.  He asked to come in the house and I let him.  I never asked for ID and didn’t get his license plate.  I stayed with him in the basement, but when he got out a camera and took a picture of nothing important that I could see, it made me uneasy.  He left, but I worried about it, until my husband got home and told him the details, fully expecting him to laugh it off, but he didn’t.  He had me call the Cable Company and report it to security.  The woman on the other line made me feel even dumber for not getting ID and I got a well-deserved lecture from several people that night.  The next day, security called to tell me it was a cable worker and he was supposed to be there.  How many times are we told to ask for ID and I know it, but I thought the guy looked nice and made a bad decision?

 

I think it is the “niceness” that gets me the most about some of these breeders, because it is how they disguise the evilness and get wonderful people to buy a dog from them and like me, with the Cable guy, we tell ourselves that “nice” people don’t do bad things.  Yet, we hear on the news all the time that some of the people that commit the worst crimes are described as being “nice” by neighbors, co-workers, friends, and family? Ted Bundy immediately comes to mind.  When you think about it like that, you have to ask yourself if you honestly think a Puppy mill breeder is going to have you come back to the areas where the real atrocities happen and let you look around?  No, they are going to show you what you want to see and answer your questions with answers they know you want to hear. This is why they stay in business, because we all know if you walked back to see dogs lying in their own filth or the filth of the dog directly above it, you would recognize this for what it really is and get the hell out of there. 

 

Are they going to tell you that when the breeding parents are used up, they will be dropped at a shelter or worse? No, because you would recognize this for what it happens to be…animal cruelty.  Are they going to tell you the parents are not health tested and at best, you might get a 30-day guarantee, if that?  They are smarter than that, and most people who have a puppy for 30 days probably won’t return it any ways and what do you think happens to that puppy if it gets returned? Are they going to admit that they are in the puppy selling business to make money, lots of it, and really don’t care about any of their dogs?  No, they won’t and they have their “nicest” people working with the public, so we buy it and go home with one of their puppies. This is how they stay in business and disguise all the ugliness.  They have to sell these dogs using deceitfulness, trickery, role-playing, and illusion; otherwise, if they did it using the truth, NO ONE would ever buy a dog from them. 

 

 

The only way we can stop this and win is to continue talking about it and getting the word out about these places.  I have been on DoodleKisses long enough to know that most of these discussions end badly, because if you start talking about how bad Puppy Mills and Pet shops are, it upsets the kind and loving people, who for good reasons in their minds and with great intentions, somehow ended up with one of these dogs.  It always ends with hurt feelings, misunderstandings, and resentfulness, and by dividing us, the people who love dogs; we get weaker against these bad breeders.  I wish I could let this go.  I wish I had said it better this week.  I wish I did not upset members that I care about and like.  It keeps going around and around in my head and I am not in the habit of hurting people, so it does not sit easily with me.

 

All I meant to say is educate yourself and others so we can put these places out of business and end the suffering of these dogs.  Maybe I didn’t post it in the right spot, but I am now. If we work together, instead of against each other, we can make a difference, because I truly believe and I am borrowing this from Oprah, “that when we know better, we do better.” This topic is going to keep coming up here because it is a dog website loaded with passionate and caring people, and I mean all of them, no matter where you got your dog. We are probably going to fight again, but hopefully we can each learn a little something from the other and get it right one of these days.  I would like to move past this and go back to playing games and writing funny blogs, but I also don’t want us to turn a blind eye to any dog that is suffering.  I don’t want to forget that behind every adorable puppy that comes from a place like this, there are mama and papa dogs that are nothing more than breeding machines until they can no longer perform. Think how much you love your dog, but no one loves these dogs or cares for them in the way we care for our own pets.  They are at the mercy of heartless monsters, through no fault of their own, and no one to speak for them, except us. Thank you, if you are still reading, for letting me say what I have not been able to stop thinking about since this all started.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Not us, we freed our groundhog from the window well and sent him on his way. I don't know if he had a girlfriend. We forgot to ask :)

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Pennsylvania, we got the PM thing down now. Boy do we. So who in the h@$ll is breeding the Groundhogs??

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Cheryl, Very well said and thank you so much for responding and reading my blog.  I truly am sorry that you felt humiliated publicly, because that was never my intent. You are not the only one who is listening. I am too, because I don't want to hurt people to make a point. I didn't know anything about brokers either, until I came here, and I could have easily been fooled by one of them too, when I got Fudge. After all, I did let a man in my house with no ID :) Abby is a beautiful dog and if you didn't defend her when you thought someone was telling you differently, then something would be wrong with you. Of course, you love her and you should and no one has the right to tell you that you shouldn't. I hope you know I never said anything derogatory about your Abby or Parker. They are innocent, sweet dogs. Thank you for explaining your side. It means a lot to me. Most of the time, DK is a happy place. I hope you find that out for yourself. Yes, let's move on, fight the fight together, and love our doodles.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Laurie, you are so welcome.  I will be happy to contribute my story about Beta. 

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Cheryl, I am so sorry about the dog you lost and sorry that you felt attacked.  You stepped in a mine field.  I agree with you and Laurie that sharing the stories of doodles we have lost because PM's might put a real "human" face on this issue and make it less likely that people would take the passion personally.  We should think about this.  Don't give up on DK as a "happy place".  I have been around DK for a couple of years and for the most part, it is supportive and uplifting.  

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Thank you, Linda, for your kind words and thoughts. I have really been thinking about what you said. This is such a hot topic on DK and every time it comes up, it seems like it is controversial and upsetting. I don't know how to get around that, when passions erupt on both sides. Joanne also suggested a group. I do think, this time, the truth was important and I hope anyone who researches that name, will read the comments and investigate further and avoid buying a dog there.  I feel, for me, if I sat silently by and did not speak up, then I am guilty of looking the other way. I guess now it is up to anyone else involved as to what they will do with that information. I am also wondering how to refer someone to a site in a situation like this, and not have them have the same reaction when they think you are saying something bad about their dog or how they got their dog.  It is all just so confusing and hard. That said, it sure would be nice to work together to figure out a better way to talk about the hard stuff.   I, too,  was also thinking it would be helpful to hear the stories about Puppy Mill dogs we have on DK, because maybe by making it personal and up close, it would resonate with people, better than being told or preached at. I wish I knew the right way. I am sorry about your first F1 Labradoodle. Thank you for making me think!

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Laurie, I am a big fan of your blogs and posts.  You are amazingly witty and so much fun.   I wish I had known about DK before I bought my first F1 labradoodle, it would have spared me agonizing pain of her death and I wouldn't have given any money to an unethical woman who was eventually raided by the police and run out of town for dog abuse and neglect.  I understand about Puppy mills now.  I don't like to see the topics get out of control and people hurt, and  I also understand the need for education and occasionally confrontation.  The thing that keeps coming into my head is what someone told me twenty years ago.  It was about telling the truth.  She said that you have to ask yourself not just is something the truth, but would saying it be useful.  And what do you intend the person to do with the information? I have questions about how much of these discussions that are being taken personally should be in a public forum?  I am in favor of a site devoted to information about PM's, how to recognize them, how to be involved in shutting them down, what experiences people have had etc.  I am so sorry you have been feeling bad about this.  You are such an asset to this website.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Adrianne, I had no idea you got her that young and to be pulled away from her mama at 3-6 weeks. Wow! Thank you for sharing. How old is she now and have you seen any lasting effects from her beginnings? I am so glad you have her. I guess the right dog really does find you!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Thanks!!  For some reason the rescue thought it is imperative that she be spayed before being posted on PF. I was told she was 9.5 weeks old when we met - I think she was younger. Her spay/hernia stitches were already healed so

1. she was pulled from her Momma anywhere from 3-6 weeks old depending on how old she really was

2. spayed much much much too early - I pray she has no continence issues when she is older but you can be sure that even if she does, she will not be rehomed or sent to a shelter

Since she came to her forever home that had Samantha and Mickey here, she was able to learn from her 'momma' and 'littermate'.

That is also part of my schpele when talking about PMs

[BG and Gavin]

You rock Adrianne!