Heated Discussions, Puppy Mills, Loving Our Dogs, and Bad Feelings! PLEASE READ!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I live in Pennsylvania, which happens to be a state that has some bad laws when it comes to animals.  I have a neighbor that chains his dogs up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  You can do that in Pennsylvania as long as you provide food and shelter.  How do I know this?  Because I have called to report my neighbor a couple of times and nothing is ever done. The last time I called was because he chained up a very small dog that shouldn’t be living out in the elements. No dog should. This week, when I drove by his house, his beautiful, filthy dirty, Springer Spaniel was in the middle of the road. Fudge and Vern were going crazy in the car, but I drove by three times to see if I could get the dog to come home with me, but then the neighbor came out and got him.  I guess the dog figured with all that barking in the car, he would take his chances where he was living.  Later, I drove by to see him back on his chain. His doghouse was surrounded by mud and water from all the rain we have had, and he was stretching his chain to find a dry spot to stand.  Recently, I penned a letter to my neighbor asking him if I could help find those dogs a home or bring them a bone or walk them or something.  My other neighbor, who is one of the kindest people I know, said not to mail it, because the guy isn’t right and who knows what he would do to us or Fudge and Vern. I haven’t mailed the letter.  I don’t know what to do, because according to our laws, those dogs are being cared for, and I feel guilty because I look away when I drive by that house.

 

This week, we had a discussion on DK that got heated.  Usually, I post funny blogs and try to stay out of the fray.  I think I can count on two fingers the times I have been confrontational on DK and feel free, to correct me if I am wrong. This time I got involved. I thought about it long and hard before I posted and some have said, I hijacked the discussion because it was meant for something else.   It won’t be the first time this happened on DK and it won’t be the last. When you are standing face to face and arguing, it is easier, because you can react to body language and facial expressions.  Writing your words down gets trickier, because there is what you said in black and white, no going back, and no way to tell if you are reading more into it then you should.  It is also easier to say something in writing when you don’t have to see the hurt or anger on the face of the person standing in front of you. I don’t like fighting, although my oldest daughter and I have no problem doing it and we have had angry words, moments where I think she is the biggest idiot I know and vice versa, and phone hang-ups, but we never hang up the phone on each other without first yelling, “I love you,” and even sometimes, “I love you, but never call again,” and thirty minutes later we are back on the phone. 

 

The problem with the Internet is, once you put it out there for all to see, you are inviting people with different life experiences, different opinions, different experiences, and different hot buttons to respond.  There is no going back or calling back. That is why when people get on DK and post that they would like to breed their male dog, without knowing anything about the dog’s lineage, on a site that promotes responsible breeding by experienced professionals and spaying and neutering, sometimes it does not matter how nicely you say something, but because the response is not what the poster wants to hear, they get upset, mad, and sometimes leave DK.  This happened the other day, when someone posted that she just got a new puppy and more or less, is letting it sleep in its own pee or poop, because she needs her sleep at night.  Again, you are on a website that loves dogs, where most people make all kinds of sacrifices those first few months, and you are surprised when someone gets upset that you don’t feel like getting up at night with a puppy that can’t possibly hold its bladder or bowels for an entire night. Sure enough, someone spoke up and didn’t say, “I agree wholeheartedly. Let your dog sleep in its own filth, because you need your rest,” and that person got mad and left DK.   Sometimes, there is no way to sugarcoat the obvious.

 

This week the discussion was something different and listed a name that because I live in the same state, I just happened to recognize. Was it about Puppy mills? No, it was not, but I knew what it was and I was worried if I said nothing, someone would be out there researching and happen upon this name and open up the discussion and see adorable dogs and happy owners and think it was a great place to get a dog. What if that person got a dog from there and recommended it to another person and they got a dog and so on and so on, and because I said nothing and looked away, more money went into the pockets of people that don’t deserve to profit off of dogs.  So, I ask you, where should I have posted it on DK and would it had made a difference if I opened a new discussion? 

 

Yesterday, I saw in the news that someone in Chicago had been arrested for drop kicking a kitten between 15 to 18 feet into the air, and then signaled a “field goal” with his arms. He was laughing as they arrested him and said, “it’s just a cat,” and that they played like this all the time.  We certainly all recognize this as animal cruelty.  Then my husband came home to tell me that someone who he works with just bought a puppy at an “Amish farm’ in Lancaster, PA.  Sometimes, we don’t see this as being on the same par as drop kicking a kitten. My husband said he congratulated his co-worker because he was so thrilled and just listened while he talked about how they checked out the facility, the parents, and all the dogs were happy.  My friend bought a dog the same way and came home with bogus papers and now doubts she even has a Labradoodle.  This kind of thing happens all the time where I live.  Very nice people, looking for a dog, go in search of one, find one they can afford, visit the place, like what they see, and of course, the puppy is beyond cute, and bring the puppy home.

 

There was a time I might have done the same.  The best dog we ever had as far as temperament and training, Hershey, came from a friend of a friend, who had a Lab that accidentally got impregnated by the roving Lab in her neighborhood.  I didn’t have a clue about health testing or back yard breeders.  We could afford Hershey and our daughter wanted a dog.  Period.  Hershey lived to be thirteen, surviving on Science Diet, and no training of any kind. She never went to doggie daycare, the dog park, never pulled on a leash, got along with our cat, our rabbit, a bird, and almost every dog and person she met, and rarely was leashed when we sat in our yard. If anyone had ever told me, I should not have gotten this dog, I would have been furious.  Fudge and Vern were the first dogs I ever had that pull on a leash like two oxen pulling a wagon. Fudge reacts to almost every moving thing and Vern peed when a puppy at the groomers jumped on him.  Any dog we ever had growing up was gotten from a newspaper ad or word of mouth.  I am sure most of them were free or cheap.  No matter where these dogs came from, we loved all of them.

 

Now, I have Fudge and Vern, my wonderful heart dogs, my Doodles, and because of them, I found DoodleKisses.  When I first joined, I remember a rescue was in process for a dog named Matt.  I don’t remember all the details, but I remember how amazed I was by this community and how I rooted for Matt to find a better life.  Since I have been on this website, I have heard so many similar stories about dogs that got a second chance and some of them, not all, have been Puppy Mill dogs.  What I knew about Puppy Mills up until that point, came from TV, magazines, or newspapers, but now I was seeing individual dogs with names and faces and tragic stories and seeing that we had hero’s right here on DoodleKisses.  It was so much harder to look away.  I couldn’t turn off the TV when it got to be too much and tell myself it doesn’t happen often, that most people are kind and caring with their animals.  It was time to face the facts.

 

Last week, I did a very dumb thing. I came home to find our Cable provider’s truck in our driveway.  The guy looked legitimate; after all he had an official truck with the right logo and said he was checking out the guy who had done repairs for us the previous week.  He asked to come in the house and I let him.  I never asked for ID and didn’t get his license plate.  I stayed with him in the basement, but when he got out a camera and took a picture of nothing important that I could see, it made me uneasy.  He left, but I worried about it, until my husband got home and told him the details, fully expecting him to laugh it off, but he didn’t.  He had me call the Cable Company and report it to security.  The woman on the other line made me feel even dumber for not getting ID and I got a well-deserved lecture from several people that night.  The next day, security called to tell me it was a cable worker and he was supposed to be there.  How many times are we told to ask for ID and I know it, but I thought the guy looked nice and made a bad decision?

 

I think it is the “niceness” that gets me the most about some of these breeders, because it is how they disguise the evilness and get wonderful people to buy a dog from them and like me, with the Cable guy, we tell ourselves that “nice” people don’t do bad things.  Yet, we hear on the news all the time that some of the people that commit the worst crimes are described as being “nice” by neighbors, co-workers, friends, and family? Ted Bundy immediately comes to mind.  When you think about it like that, you have to ask yourself if you honestly think a Puppy mill breeder is going to have you come back to the areas where the real atrocities happen and let you look around?  No, they are going to show you what you want to see and answer your questions with answers they know you want to hear. This is why they stay in business, because we all know if you walked back to see dogs lying in their own filth or the filth of the dog directly above it, you would recognize this for what it really is and get the hell out of there. 

 

Are they going to tell you that when the breeding parents are used up, they will be dropped at a shelter or worse? No, because you would recognize this for what it happens to be…animal cruelty.  Are they going to tell you the parents are not health tested and at best, you might get a 30-day guarantee, if that?  They are smarter than that, and most people who have a puppy for 30 days probably won’t return it any ways and what do you think happens to that puppy if it gets returned? Are they going to admit that they are in the puppy selling business to make money, lots of it, and really don’t care about any of their dogs?  No, they won’t and they have their “nicest” people working with the public, so we buy it and go home with one of their puppies. This is how they stay in business and disguise all the ugliness.  They have to sell these dogs using deceitfulness, trickery, role-playing, and illusion; otherwise, if they did it using the truth, NO ONE would ever buy a dog from them. 

 

 

The only way we can stop this and win is to continue talking about it and getting the word out about these places.  I have been on DoodleKisses long enough to know that most of these discussions end badly, because if you start talking about how bad Puppy Mills and Pet shops are, it upsets the kind and loving people, who for good reasons in their minds and with great intentions, somehow ended up with one of these dogs.  It always ends with hurt feelings, misunderstandings, and resentfulness, and by dividing us, the people who love dogs; we get weaker against these bad breeders.  I wish I could let this go.  I wish I had said it better this week.  I wish I did not upset members that I care about and like.  It keeps going around and around in my head and I am not in the habit of hurting people, so it does not sit easily with me.

 

All I meant to say is educate yourself and others so we can put these places out of business and end the suffering of these dogs.  Maybe I didn’t post it in the right spot, but I am now. If we work together, instead of against each other, we can make a difference, because I truly believe and I am borrowing this from Oprah, “that when we know better, we do better.” This topic is going to keep coming up here because it is a dog website loaded with passionate and caring people, and I mean all of them, no matter where you got your dog. We are probably going to fight again, but hopefully we can each learn a little something from the other and get it right one of these days.  I would like to move past this and go back to playing games and writing funny blogs, but I also don’t want us to turn a blind eye to any dog that is suffering.  I don’t want to forget that behind every adorable puppy that comes from a place like this, there are mama and papa dogs that are nothing more than breeding machines until they can no longer perform. Think how much you love your dog, but no one loves these dogs or cares for them in the way we care for our own pets.  They are at the mercy of heartless monsters, through no fault of their own, and no one to speak for them, except us. Thank you, if you are still reading, for letting me say what I have not been able to stop thinking about since this all started.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Oh and F, Thank you!! Keep telling her I am wonderful!!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

FrenchPoodleDoodle, Usually, I do not try to claim you on this site because you are usually disagreeing with me, but this time, you made your old mother feel very nice. Thank you!! I love you and thanks for speaking up!!

F, I am framing that comment. Yes, her on line screen name has given her and her husband hours of enjoyment :)  She takes after your brother, J!!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Nicky, I appreciate your comments very much and you made some excellent points. Thank you! I remember, too, when you got Riley and your journey to get him :)

Nancy, Thank you for your comment and great points. It is hard sometimes to know what is the best way to comment. Again, just like people you know in your own life...some are blunt, some are quiet, some are loud, some are insistent, and some just get their point across in an easier way. I guess as a newcomer you might read more into comments then intended because you are not familiar with the poster, BUT, I also think if you ask the question, you should expect many types of responses and know that most people are really trying to give honest, helpful responses even when it gets passionate and heated. I hope this makes sense. Thank you!!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Laurie, very well said.  I wish I could put your thoughtful, insightful, and so often humorous slant into words the way you do.  I agree with Camella about trying the gentle route first.  That is what I usually tried when talking to parents about their children's possible or real disabilities - sometimes we need to give others a chance to digest a while.  However there is a time to 'hit people over the head with a two-by-four' by being frank and honest. It is hard to know when to make the switch. Though I may not have gotten my dogs from the best places in the past due to my ignorance or naivete, I am now educated about what to do in the future.  If I do not heed my education in this, all dk members have permission to use that two-by-four on me.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Laurie, print that last comment out as permanent evidence : ) I just got through telling your daughter how great you are when I tracked her down intrigued by her on line name.

[FrenchPoodleDoodle]

Mom, I'm not one to comment on these things unless I can make you look bad, but I just had to say well said! I am proud of you! I think you did the right thing by responding to that other discussion and in writing this blog. We need more courageous people like you (and many other DKers) who are willing to stand up for what's right. Once again, I'm proud to call you my mom!

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Apologies in advance if this proves a little abrupt.....

I was very lucky that while I was searching for Riley that I found DK very early on.  It was on a link from a breeder and for the life of me I don't know which one it was. I do know that I must have searched through at least 100 breeders sites, most of them in the US, Australia and Canada.  I think I got quite good at deciding whether they were ones that I would consider visiting (if distance was no object)  Some of them were so slick that I was suspicious from the outset.  Some had so many breeding males and females that had me thinking where do all these dogs live and how could it be possible that would have any love and individual attention?

I could have found a Labradoodle in Ireland from a backyard breeder but that was all that is available here  and I certainly wasn't going down that road.  My extensive research brought me finally to Scotland.  Riley certainly wasn't cheap, there were the added costs that had me traveling to collect him.  The bottom line is that I was lucky that I like to research with any purchase.  I've had experience buying horses and believe me there are a load of crooks in that business too.  All of the above, my age and experience and of course finding so much great information here on DK led me to the right breeder and ultimatley the right dog.

I read that post the other day but didn't comment and wondered whether we should let all new members know what sort of people are on here.  By that I mean those wonderful, knowledgeable and honest members who have only got the welfare of all Doodles forefront in their minds.  Woe betide any unsuspecting person who comes to DK considering becoming a 'hobby' breeder or any who have no patience with young pups and are not committed to training them or those who feed rubbish dog food.  If they are open to learn they are in the right place but otherwise?  It would be nice to think that we would all spend time and gently try to change mindsets but I'm  afraid I'm too old and cranky for all that...  

             

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Thank you, Allyson!!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

You did the right thing by responding the way you did. Period.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Jennifer, This is why it is so great to talk about it, because that is how we learn. If no one said anything, the word would never get out there and help the next person.

Lisa and Joanne, Thank you for sharing your stories. The stories were brave and touching.  Thank you!

Jennifer, Keep shouting! Thank you!