Heated Discussions, Puppy Mills, Loving Our Dogs, and Bad Feelings! PLEASE READ!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I live in Pennsylvania, which happens to be a state that has some bad laws when it comes to animals.  I have a neighbor that chains his dogs up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  You can do that in Pennsylvania as long as you provide food and shelter.  How do I know this?  Because I have called to report my neighbor a couple of times and nothing is ever done. The last time I called was because he chained up a very small dog that shouldn’t be living out in the elements. No dog should. This week, when I drove by his house, his beautiful, filthy dirty, Springer Spaniel was in the middle of the road. Fudge and Vern were going crazy in the car, but I drove by three times to see if I could get the dog to come home with me, but then the neighbor came out and got him.  I guess the dog figured with all that barking in the car, he would take his chances where he was living.  Later, I drove by to see him back on his chain. His doghouse was surrounded by mud and water from all the rain we have had, and he was stretching his chain to find a dry spot to stand.  Recently, I penned a letter to my neighbor asking him if I could help find those dogs a home or bring them a bone or walk them or something.  My other neighbor, who is one of the kindest people I know, said not to mail it, because the guy isn’t right and who knows what he would do to us or Fudge and Vern. I haven’t mailed the letter.  I don’t know what to do, because according to our laws, those dogs are being cared for, and I feel guilty because I look away when I drive by that house.

 

This week, we had a discussion on DK that got heated.  Usually, I post funny blogs and try to stay out of the fray.  I think I can count on two fingers the times I have been confrontational on DK and feel free, to correct me if I am wrong. This time I got involved. I thought about it long and hard before I posted and some have said, I hijacked the discussion because it was meant for something else.   It won’t be the first time this happened on DK and it won’t be the last. When you are standing face to face and arguing, it is easier, because you can react to body language and facial expressions.  Writing your words down gets trickier, because there is what you said in black and white, no going back, and no way to tell if you are reading more into it then you should.  It is also easier to say something in writing when you don’t have to see the hurt or anger on the face of the person standing in front of you. I don’t like fighting, although my oldest daughter and I have no problem doing it and we have had angry words, moments where I think she is the biggest idiot I know and vice versa, and phone hang-ups, but we never hang up the phone on each other without first yelling, “I love you,” and even sometimes, “I love you, but never call again,” and thirty minutes later we are back on the phone. 

 

The problem with the Internet is, once you put it out there for all to see, you are inviting people with different life experiences, different opinions, different experiences, and different hot buttons to respond.  There is no going back or calling back. That is why when people get on DK and post that they would like to breed their male dog, without knowing anything about the dog’s lineage, on a site that promotes responsible breeding by experienced professionals and spaying and neutering, sometimes it does not matter how nicely you say something, but because the response is not what the poster wants to hear, they get upset, mad, and sometimes leave DK.  This happened the other day, when someone posted that she just got a new puppy and more or less, is letting it sleep in its own pee or poop, because she needs her sleep at night.  Again, you are on a website that loves dogs, where most people make all kinds of sacrifices those first few months, and you are surprised when someone gets upset that you don’t feel like getting up at night with a puppy that can’t possibly hold its bladder or bowels for an entire night. Sure enough, someone spoke up and didn’t say, “I agree wholeheartedly. Let your dog sleep in its own filth, because you need your rest,” and that person got mad and left DK.   Sometimes, there is no way to sugarcoat the obvious.

 

This week the discussion was something different and listed a name that because I live in the same state, I just happened to recognize. Was it about Puppy mills? No, it was not, but I knew what it was and I was worried if I said nothing, someone would be out there researching and happen upon this name and open up the discussion and see adorable dogs and happy owners and think it was a great place to get a dog. What if that person got a dog from there and recommended it to another person and they got a dog and so on and so on, and because I said nothing and looked away, more money went into the pockets of people that don’t deserve to profit off of dogs.  So, I ask you, where should I have posted it on DK and would it had made a difference if I opened a new discussion? 

 

Yesterday, I saw in the news that someone in Chicago had been arrested for drop kicking a kitten between 15 to 18 feet into the air, and then signaled a “field goal” with his arms. He was laughing as they arrested him and said, “it’s just a cat,” and that they played like this all the time.  We certainly all recognize this as animal cruelty.  Then my husband came home to tell me that someone who he works with just bought a puppy at an “Amish farm’ in Lancaster, PA.  Sometimes, we don’t see this as being on the same par as drop kicking a kitten. My husband said he congratulated his co-worker because he was so thrilled and just listened while he talked about how they checked out the facility, the parents, and all the dogs were happy.  My friend bought a dog the same way and came home with bogus papers and now doubts she even has a Labradoodle.  This kind of thing happens all the time where I live.  Very nice people, looking for a dog, go in search of one, find one they can afford, visit the place, like what they see, and of course, the puppy is beyond cute, and bring the puppy home.

 

There was a time I might have done the same.  The best dog we ever had as far as temperament and training, Hershey, came from a friend of a friend, who had a Lab that accidentally got impregnated by the roving Lab in her neighborhood.  I didn’t have a clue about health testing or back yard breeders.  We could afford Hershey and our daughter wanted a dog.  Period.  Hershey lived to be thirteen, surviving on Science Diet, and no training of any kind. She never went to doggie daycare, the dog park, never pulled on a leash, got along with our cat, our rabbit, a bird, and almost every dog and person she met, and rarely was leashed when we sat in our yard. If anyone had ever told me, I should not have gotten this dog, I would have been furious.  Fudge and Vern were the first dogs I ever had that pull on a leash like two oxen pulling a wagon. Fudge reacts to almost every moving thing and Vern peed when a puppy at the groomers jumped on him.  Any dog we ever had growing up was gotten from a newspaper ad or word of mouth.  I am sure most of them were free or cheap.  No matter where these dogs came from, we loved all of them.

 

Now, I have Fudge and Vern, my wonderful heart dogs, my Doodles, and because of them, I found DoodleKisses.  When I first joined, I remember a rescue was in process for a dog named Matt.  I don’t remember all the details, but I remember how amazed I was by this community and how I rooted for Matt to find a better life.  Since I have been on this website, I have heard so many similar stories about dogs that got a second chance and some of them, not all, have been Puppy Mill dogs.  What I knew about Puppy Mills up until that point, came from TV, magazines, or newspapers, but now I was seeing individual dogs with names and faces and tragic stories and seeing that we had hero’s right here on DoodleKisses.  It was so much harder to look away.  I couldn’t turn off the TV when it got to be too much and tell myself it doesn’t happen often, that most people are kind and caring with their animals.  It was time to face the facts.

 

Last week, I did a very dumb thing. I came home to find our Cable provider’s truck in our driveway.  The guy looked legitimate; after all he had an official truck with the right logo and said he was checking out the guy who had done repairs for us the previous week.  He asked to come in the house and I let him.  I never asked for ID and didn’t get his license plate.  I stayed with him in the basement, but when he got out a camera and took a picture of nothing important that I could see, it made me uneasy.  He left, but I worried about it, until my husband got home and told him the details, fully expecting him to laugh it off, but he didn’t.  He had me call the Cable Company and report it to security.  The woman on the other line made me feel even dumber for not getting ID and I got a well-deserved lecture from several people that night.  The next day, security called to tell me it was a cable worker and he was supposed to be there.  How many times are we told to ask for ID and I know it, but I thought the guy looked nice and made a bad decision?

 

I think it is the “niceness” that gets me the most about some of these breeders, because it is how they disguise the evilness and get wonderful people to buy a dog from them and like me, with the Cable guy, we tell ourselves that “nice” people don’t do bad things.  Yet, we hear on the news all the time that some of the people that commit the worst crimes are described as being “nice” by neighbors, co-workers, friends, and family? Ted Bundy immediately comes to mind.  When you think about it like that, you have to ask yourself if you honestly think a Puppy mill breeder is going to have you come back to the areas where the real atrocities happen and let you look around?  No, they are going to show you what you want to see and answer your questions with answers they know you want to hear. This is why they stay in business, because we all know if you walked back to see dogs lying in their own filth or the filth of the dog directly above it, you would recognize this for what it really is and get the hell out of there. 

 

Are they going to tell you that when the breeding parents are used up, they will be dropped at a shelter or worse? No, because you would recognize this for what it happens to be…animal cruelty.  Are they going to tell you the parents are not health tested and at best, you might get a 30-day guarantee, if that?  They are smarter than that, and most people who have a puppy for 30 days probably won’t return it any ways and what do you think happens to that puppy if it gets returned? Are they going to admit that they are in the puppy selling business to make money, lots of it, and really don’t care about any of their dogs?  No, they won’t and they have their “nicest” people working with the public, so we buy it and go home with one of their puppies. This is how they stay in business and disguise all the ugliness.  They have to sell these dogs using deceitfulness, trickery, role-playing, and illusion; otherwise, if they did it using the truth, NO ONE would ever buy a dog from them. 

 

 

The only way we can stop this and win is to continue talking about it and getting the word out about these places.  I have been on DoodleKisses long enough to know that most of these discussions end badly, because if you start talking about how bad Puppy Mills and Pet shops are, it upsets the kind and loving people, who for good reasons in their minds and with great intentions, somehow ended up with one of these dogs.  It always ends with hurt feelings, misunderstandings, and resentfulness, and by dividing us, the people who love dogs; we get weaker against these bad breeders.  I wish I could let this go.  I wish I had said it better this week.  I wish I did not upset members that I care about and like.  It keeps going around and around in my head and I am not in the habit of hurting people, so it does not sit easily with me.

 

All I meant to say is educate yourself and others so we can put these places out of business and end the suffering of these dogs.  Maybe I didn’t post it in the right spot, but I am now. If we work together, instead of against each other, we can make a difference, because I truly believe and I am borrowing this from Oprah, “that when we know better, we do better.” This topic is going to keep coming up here because it is a dog website loaded with passionate and caring people, and I mean all of them, no matter where you got your dog. We are probably going to fight again, but hopefully we can each learn a little something from the other and get it right one of these days.  I would like to move past this and go back to playing games and writing funny blogs, but I also don’t want us to turn a blind eye to any dog that is suffering.  I don’t want to forget that behind every adorable puppy that comes from a place like this, there are mama and papa dogs that are nothing more than breeding machines until they can no longer perform. Think how much you love your dog, but no one loves these dogs or cares for them in the way we care for our own pets.  They are at the mercy of heartless monsters, through no fault of their own, and no one to speak for them, except us. Thank you, if you are still reading, for letting me say what I have not been able to stop thinking about since this all started.

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

Donna-thanks for sharing, I really am finding that I am not the only one on here that didn't go the correct breeding route! I never knew about Darwin either and Quincy and Darwin are 2 of many doodles that I admire on this site!

Also some dogs that are rescues that I had no clue about, they all turned out to be great dogs once you guys got a hold of them. A big sigh of relief for me. I'm glad to know how we came upon our doodles. Thank you!

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

It is way too early in the morning to write my story....there is one, but suffice to say we did not get Daisy from a puppy mill however we also did not get her from a "reputable breeder" by DK standards in any way shape or form.

I also knew about PM's and Petstores and steered clear. We took a long time to find our girl and were very patient but heart won, and at the time I thought we had done a great job concerning our breeder. Then came DK, where I feel guilty many times after many discussions.

We did meet the parents, we did see where the puppies were housed and it was clean, however there were issues that I after being here I probably would not have purchased from them.

I watch our breeder now...she is doing better now but there will always be that nagging feeling.

Laurie, I saw that post and read your comment...though I thought it was a little different from you I did not think it was out of line, I mean how could I, to know you is to love you. I did not follow the post to see what ensued.

Thank you for a well written and heartfelt blog,

[Donna K & Quincy]

Ah, Joanne, we live and we learn.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

PS she is still selling puppie. I've never recommended her :) Now, when I want a puppy so much, she has a litter and there is no way.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

When I got Spud it was the day before Super Bowl Sunday.  For weeks, well months, I had been sneaking around looking for dogs.  I had sent in a lot of applications for adoption but it always asked, " Are all family members in agreement'"  Those I never sent.

F.J. and I had both had lost dogs a few  years before this and he was not on board to go through the grief again.

During this time I had done a lot of research about what to look for in a dog. I printed out the pages and hid them in a secret folder.  " The, I was going to get a dog, I'll have this all planned out, he will agree to this one day, I'll be ready folder"

I searched and searched and armed myself.   I did know about puppy mills.  I knew to stay away from pet stores. I knew not to go down to the mills in mid Ohio. I had heard about the Amish.

 I did not know about BYB.  As an older member, it was common years ago to get puppies from local families.   

When the day finally came that F.J. said, " Joanne, I really don't care if we get a dog............" I did not let him finish.  Out came that folder and I was on the phone in 30 secs

I had spoken to a woman about Mastiffs.  She was a real breeder. Mother and Father on sight. Health records.  All the things you need.  But she did  not answer the phone.

So I grabbed another number that caught my eye a few days before.  The woman was nasty when I asked her, what a goldendoodle was, but said I could come see.  Of course, I was not getting  dog from her but maybe if F.J. held a puppy it would seal the deal. He would melt. I knew, soon we would have a dog.  Finally.

I took out my list with the 10 things to ask a breeder. Yep, I was ready! 

When we got there we found no mother, no health records, nothing but Spud and his sister.  She said all were there and she was ready to show me.  I asked my questions and she FLUNKED.  She told me she was helping her niece.  Her eyes looked ashamed.  I still can see them.  I looked mostly at her home, the pictures on the wall, the love of her animals and family, all kinds of things as F.J. checked out the pups all over again. After a very long time, Spud came home with us anyway.

I was the first person at the door when the vet opened on Monday.  I told him all about how I had flunked.   He looked straight up at me for a very long time.

He said, you let your heart win over your mind.  I looked more ashamed than the woman who sold me the puppy.  He said, you got lucky this time.  This is a healthy little guy.  Really cute and healthy.

I got lucky the first time but the fosters I had after that.... well that was a huge eye opener.  I had a vet who told me we will keep a close eye on him.  He did.

But honestly, because of these discussions, we have all learned so much. 

As I watch new member after new member arrive--those waiting for new puppies I do have faith that many are doing their research.  I admire them so much.

[Jennifer and Jack]

I keep typing and erasing what I was going to say because it is mostly babble. 

I cried reading people's responses, mostly Joanne's and Karens.. It killed me, I am a very visual person so as the story was told, I had pictures in my head. They are etched there, I only pray that I continue to speak out for the rights of dogs... I pray I get even more boisterous about it..

I haven't done enough to help the dogs in shelters, doodles or any kind of dog honestly. If I could I would live in a bubble where nothing bad happens to any helpless creature...that is the truth...I am a weak person, I can't go in Pet Smart on Saturday, I can't look at those rescues out of my head.. Thankfully where I live there are two amazing rescue groups and they do an amazing job and they pull out the dogs that are in the kill shelters, sadly they don't pull them all out, they pull out the ones they think are adoptable.. I know the women who does this.. I never want to be her...

I have no other words to describe those who rescue dogs other then hero's. Honestly you who do this work are extensions of God's arm reaching out to this helpless and loyal living beings.

Laurie, you are a funny person, that is only one side of you, you are compassionate, loving and I respect you a lot.. Never apologize for standing up for what is right, for standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves... It is not about the puppies or the dogs, it is about those scum sucking pigs that are abusing them and they need to be outed..it needs to be everywhere, all over....

If should be announced on bull horns, it should be shouted everywhere!!!

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

LOL!! Lauricki says "Bring it on!!"

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Thank you, Charlotte. You make a very good point!!

Ricki, Don't tell Donna your weaknesses. She will use it against us in the next game :) Just kidding...and another great point!!

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Donna I have a list of regrets as long as my arm of poor decisions made in regard to my former animal companions. But I also have a list of lessons that those wonderful souls gave me the opportunity to learn. That's what is comes down to...what we have learned and what we do with the knowledge. Your spine seems just fine to me! :)

[Charlotte and Bo]

Just a thought about putting things in black and white.  The head of the laboratory where I worked would have a meeting to discuss the work he wanted done or the statistics he needed (usually at 5 or 6pm when we should be leaving).  The next day we would find yellow sticky notes ( or several ) attached to our phones reiterating everything again.  I always figured that he wanted to make sure it was a priority in our work day. One of my co-workers always took it as a criticism.  He felt he was being yelled at via post-it even though there was nothing in the note to indicate anger.  Turns out the boss knew this and would leave him notes all the time just to get the guy thinking.  The point is, that if the discussion got heated it was probably because someone was  feeling guilty about something and projected that in their response.