Making the switch

[Trudy Harlow]

As Paul Harvey used to say, "And now for the rest of the story..."

Early this year, through the Raw Feeding group on this website, I ran across the Yahoo Raw Meaty Bones discussion group.  I joined and "lurked" for a while, reading the posts.  I have to say, I was totally intimidated by the idea of switching Paddy to a diet of nothing but meat and bones.  Like most dog owners, I was raised on the idea that bones, especially chicken bones, are bad for dogs.  So how could he eat them safely?  Also, I still was concerned about the cleanliness factor.  I live in the DC Metro area and we often have bad weather, so feeding him outdoors was out of the question -- we don't have a covered porch.  Also, I didn't want meat remnants all over my yard -- yuck!  But then, feeding him INSIDE was far more challenging -- how do you do it, especially if -- like me -- you have small grandchildren crawling and running around the house from time to time?

The people on the RMB discussion group were so very helpful and reassuring.  Through them, I learned that you can teach your dog to eat on a towel or plastic tablecloth instead of dragging the meat around the house and contaminating everything.  I learned that it's perfectly safe to feed your dog raw bones, except for the weight-bearing bones of large animals (e.g., cow or deer legs).  I learned that because the dog's GI tract is so short, salmonella and other such infections are not a concern.  Sure, the poop may be contaminated, but who touches poop with their bare hands? 

So, filled with trepidation, I made the decision to start.  For some reason, I decided to start with rabbit -- not an inexpensive choice in the US, but it was affordable enough for a few weeks.  Especially so since Paddy totally refused the raw food for days on end and then ate just enough to stay alive for more days on end.  So I ended up not having to buy much (in fact, I still have some in my freezer.)

The RMB group was so supportive!  They encouraged me to hold fast, that Paddy would eventually eat, even though he lost 2 lbs during the process (he has since gained it back -- as they said he would).  Believe me, there was a LOT of hand-holding going on during this time.

Paddy is a funny boy in that he always has brought his rawhide and other chewers to us to hold for him while he chewed on them.  So in the beginning, I actually held the rabbit quarters for him (I wore latex gloves most of the time, but not always).  That was the only way he'd even attempt to eat.  If I put the meat down on his towel, he would sniff it and walk away.  I truly think he did not realize it was real food!  The RMB group was really after me for holding his food for him, but I think (and still believe) that it helped the transition.  I no longer hold his food, BTW.

The idea is that you start with one easy-to-digest protein (like chicken or rabbit) and stick with it for several weeks, until your dog's system accommodates itself to the raw diet.  That way, it's easier to figure out if something upsets his stomach. This was hard for Paddy because he really didn't particularly like the rabbit, which I had unfortunately started with.  Nevertheless, we persevered, with Paddy eating very little but enough.

Finally, finally, after a couple of weeks, I decided to just go ahead and try him on some raw beef shanks (with bone removed).  OMG!  He ate those like they were filet mignon!  They were gone in a flash.  He is obviously a red meat boy, since he will eat chicken, but not as eagerly as pork or beef.  So...we were launched. 

It was touch-and-go for those first couple of weeks, and I absolutely would not have made it through without the support and total encouragement of the RMB group.  I doubted, I doubted, I worried and worried....but I knew at the point when I returned all Paddy's unused "old" food to the pet store that I would never go back.

Next:  It's been a couple of months...so how's it going?

[F, Calla & Luca]

Karen, as you know I am on immunotherapy myself and I think it's helped a great deal. Other than a little reaction at the site I've had no reactions either. In fact many, many people, and dogs too I suppose have been helped. I'm not sure why they would be called homeopathic. They contain measured amount of antigen, designed to be enough to stimulate the immune system. Many homeopathic remedies are essentially water or some solute with infinitesimal amounts of whatever substance. Vaccines for disease are also refrigerated I believe and they certainly contain preservatives.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Anyway, getting back to cooking depleting the nutrients from foods, the point is that if cooking depleted nutrients, everybody who eats cooked food would develop nutritional deficiencies, regardless of their species, and we know that doesn't happen. Our digestive systems are not all that different from dogs'. We both have to break down the food into the elements that can be absorbed and utilized by the body. We know that properly cooked food still contains approximately 75-80% of it's protein content, whether it's a dog eating it or a human.

As to poop, those of us who don't feed RMB also know that poop can give an indication of health and many of us are just as obsessed with it. I don't know that very small amounts of poop are necessarily a sign of health in dogs. It definitely isn't in humans. Well-formed, good-sized, appropriately colored poop is (I'm trying not to be disgusting here) in both dogs and humans. I also know that too much grain and other indeigestible fillers in a dog's diet will increase the volume of poop, and that an excess of protein will cause constipation in both humans and dogs. When I switched Jack to a grain-free high-qulaity kibble, his poop volume was drastically reduced.  I've heard that the poop from dogs fed a high-protein home-cooked diet is also not excessive in volume.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

His antigens do have to be kept refrigerated, though. So maybe not?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, there you go, F. And immunotherapy treatments are supposed to be "homeopathic"..."like cures like" and all that. I wonder if all the homeopathic "remedies" used by the alternative practitioners use preservatives. So much for "natural".

All I know is that Jack has done beautifully with the treatments and had no side effects from them. That's good enough for me, whether it's "natural" or not.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I know I can be a stickler for the facts. I absolutely agree that feeding raw does not treat, cure or prevent many diseases. I disagree that immunotherapy is completely natural. I suspect the sera are made with preservatives in them for instance but I do not know this for a fact. I certainly do know there can be side effects ranging from mild to anaphylactic shock. Most all medical treatments, and diets too for that matter, involve a risk benefit ratio. Anything said to prevent or cure everything is bound to be hokum. We should all just stick to the facts or at least qualify our remarks as being our thoughts or opinions. We do  all have good intentions I'm sure but sometimes we get carried away with our enthusiasms or our ways.

I just checked and there is, at least in human sera phenol and other compounds.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"I am suggesting there is a better way to feed you dogs; a more natural, easy way that would alleviate many of the awful symptoms I keep reading about on DK."

I know that you really believe this, and mean to help, but in fact raw feeding cannot do that. How do I know this? I know because there are many, many raw fed dogs in both my Atopic Dermatitis group and the Yahoo Inflammatory Bowel Disease group to which I belong. Many people there also belong to the RMB group, and were feeding RMB long before their dogs developed IBD, yet it did not prevent the disease from occuring it and isn't curing it. It has also not helped the dogs with Atopy or relieved their symptoms.

There is a member of DK who is not active who feeds his dogs strictly an RMB diet, and last year his 5 year old doodle died of complications of Addison's disease. I in no way mean to imply that the diet had anything to do with this disease, or with the tragic outcome, but it didn't prevent it or help it from getting worse, either.

My point is that I support many aspects of raw feeding, but I just cannot tolerate the claims that it will prevent or cure serious diseases. I feel that making these claims is harmful in cases where there are effective treatments available, like immunotherapy for allergies (which BTW is totally natural and free of both drugs and side effects)and people are not getting their dogs properly diagnosed or treated because they are being told incoreectly that food is causing the dogs' problems and food can cure it. This is when I feel I must say something, not because my way is right and someone else's way is wrong, but because I can't bear to see a dog suffer needlessly because the owners don't have the correct information. I allowed Jack to suffer too long with his Atopy before seeking proper treatment for this exact reason, people talking about food and raw feeding curing allergies, and I will always regret that.

That's my only motivation, and I know that everyone else here has good intentions as well.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Exactly Karen. The idea that there is a problem with denaturation by cooking is a way to support raw feeding. I have nothing against dogs being fed raw but the explanations about it should be based on fact.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Open any first year nutrition textbook and you will find the word "denatured" used as a definition of the process of protein digestion. Denaturing can be done in many ways, and one of them is by stomach acid during digestion.

From one of those basic nutrition textbooks:

Denaturation of Proteins

• •Proteins can be denatured (distorted in shape) by heat, radiation, alcohol, acids, bases, or the salts of heavy metals.

–During digestion, stomach acid denatures proteins, permitting digestive enzymes to make contact with the peptide bonds and cleave them.

–During cooking, denaturation also occurs.

[Trudy Harlow]

Andrea, don't worry about it -- I'm enjoying the discussion!

Also, it sounds like we are talking about two different meanings for the same word.  If you do a Google search, you'll see what I mean.  Denaturation in processing means something slightly different from denaturation in digestion, it appears.  But what do I know?

[F, Calla & Luca]

Sorry, denaturation does not mean having all the nutrient values cooked out. It actually refers to altering the structure of the protein, which also occurs in digestion in order for enzymes to break the protein into absorbable nutrients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestion