Fear Issues?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

On the subject of behavioral problems, is anyone else here dealing with undesirable behaviors caused by fear issues? Things like barking, lunging, cowering, urinating, etc. because of fear of strangers, noises, etc.?
I have been working with Jack since I got him in January of 2006 on some of these, and recently was asked for ideas to help the foster mom of an extremely fear-aggressive dog. It is hard sometimes to have a dog whose psychological/behavioral problems cause him to act out in ways that others (not knowing his history) view with disapproval. I am wondering if anyone else here has a "special-needs" dog with some of these issues, and if so, what has worked for you in dealing with them?

[Janie]

Karen,I do not have a dog with these kind of issues....but would love hearing how they can be helped.

[Jackie]

Hi Karen,

Bailey just had his first seizure last week, 7/7/09 at 6 a.m. He came out of it very aggressively, biting and barking like crazy! My brother came down to help us with him since I had to go to the E.R. Before leaving, we gave Bailey his blanket and draped it over a chair, he was able to put his face under the blanket which calmed him down my brother told us that while we were gone he was able to pet him and finally get him back to a secure state. He has always liked to have his face under blankets, his type of security I believe. But this is what we have been finding in the last week that he wants his security. I don't know if this helps you, but it has helped Bailey. Please keep me updated on anything else you find since we don't know if he will have another seizure and we are looking for ideas to help him through them in case it does happen again.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks, Jackie. This is an old post, and the lady in question has gotten a handle on her dog's issues. I think with Bailey, it's a different kind of thing, the behavior was caused by disorientation from the seizure and is probably not really a behavioral thing. The ways to deal with these kinds of behaviors would be very different if you are talking about a perfectly healthy dog taking a walk with his owner, and a frightened dog coming out of a seizure. I know you are pursuing getting some medical help for bailey, and I really feel that will solve the problem for you. Hugs to you both.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Too bad this subject wasn't more expanded. :(

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Maybe we should start it up again in the main forum; many people don't think of fear aggression & other fear issues as "special needs", but we know they are.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Sounds good. I have a dog who fears to come off the couch and walk around. She is also afraid to go outside. But....................................... if you take her to the park or on a walk she howls with pure joy.
She refuses to play in her own yard. She only will go to the bathroom in ONE place. Gawd I wish she would move up an acre.

Some days we think she may have been so rigidly trained ( maybe not trained at all ?) that there may have been a command of some sort that told her when she was permitted to be a dog.

I walk around the house trying all kinds of commands. Now I just say, " Hey Lace, you are free to roam about the cabin"

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

May I add here that she almost appears to be competition trained. When we throw a ball, she runs real fast, retrieves the ball and then DROPS. Her eyes are intently on the ball thrower but will not come unless called. When called, she runs full speed ahead and then drops to the ground again at the throwers feet. Any ideas? Just being a dog?
We have never been " trained" so we don't know what they do in competition, we have just viewed it on television but we have seen this behavior before.
Then she goes back to not knowing anything. We have a long way to go since we have no history on this foster.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can so relate to what you're saying. Jack also appears to have been trained in obedience, but in such a harsh way that he was terrified of making a mistake, so he would often just freeze up in any situation where he wasn't absolutely sure what to do. And he had been so rigidly housebroken that he would just hold it forever because he wasn't sure where the exact outdoor spot was. (This is just my theory, we'll never know for sure.)
Over time, some of his submissive behaviors became fear aggression (towards strange men and dogs on leash), and we've had a new set of issues to deal with. It's a work in progress, but progress is the key word here. One foot (or paw) in front of the other gets you there eventually; sometimes more safely and surely than running does.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

YES. I can so relate to what you're saying. Jack also appears to have been trained in obedience, but in such a harsh way that he was terrified of making a mistake, so he would often just freeze up in any situation where he wasn't absolutely sure what to do. And he had been so rigidly housebroken that he would just hold it forever because he wasn't sure where the exact outdoor spot was. (This is just my theory, we'll never know for sure.)

I could have written this myself. I am going to write some letters asking if a trainer will donate some time ( for a special dog) to see if this is the case.

Should I? Or do you think this will bring back fears instead of understand her fears?

So you think over time these become aggressive? Interesting. If you have time expand here.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I really know so little about training dogs with issues. In the past, I had well-adjusted normal puppies and used the traditional methods of "correcting" them with a firm hand and a jerk on the leash and then praising or using food rewards. None of that works with Jack. He is so bonded to me that he does what I want 95% of the time because he can't stand for me to be mad at him or ignore him, lol. And he's basically a submissive dog. I have not found a trainer who seems right for us yet. I just won't have him shocked or jerked...not this dog. We muddle through on our own.
You often read about fear aggression...a dog who lashes out aggressively out of fear. I'm not sure sometimes if it's protectiveness or fear, or both. They tell you that if a dog is being protective, you have failed to assume the role of pack leader in the dog's eyes; that if the dog felt that you were in control, he would relax and let you handle things instead of feeling he has to do it. I just don't know.
Jack used to act submissive when he met new dogs on leash. Then as he gained confidence, he started to be aggressive towards certain strange dogs. This is still something we work on every day on our walks. I get literally in his face, get in front of him, back him into a sit, whatever it takes to get him calmed down and focused on me. It's working. He used to be afraid of strange men coming into the house, and would cower, slink, or back away; now he barks and lunges aggressively, but also backs away at the same time. For this, I can only keep him tethered to me. Some would say he has taken over the role of pack leader because I've failed to show him that I'm in charge. Others think he's protecting me. Maybe that's the same thing. I wish I knew.
But he isn't afraid of inanimate objects anymore, he doesn't jump out of his skin at the sound of a crow or a garage door anymore, he walks past the holiday lawn decorations without batting an eye, and he goes out into the yard to do his business without slinking and crouching as if there's some monster in the yard waiting to attack him. This is huge progress. He has become a dog who is more secure in the world. And he trusts the people he knows. Sometimes he acts like a big shot because of his new confidence. I would be lying if I said I think that's entirely bad.
I don't think a trainer would be a bad thing for Lace, but it has to be the right trainer. These dogs bring out our softest sides, and maybe that's not so great...maybe we spoil them. I'm pretty sure Jack could pass the CGC tomorrow in the hands of someone who expected him to respond and didn't let him get away with anything. It sure would be interesting to find out what they really know, wouldn't it? But I can't believe it would be a good thing for dogs who have no confidence and don't know how to trust to be handled forcefully, especially if they've had some bad experiences with that.
So after all these words, it comes down to, I just don't know. I think you have to trust your instincts and trust the dog to show you what who he is and what he needs.
Does this answer any of your questions at all?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

As it was explained to me once, Fear is Anger turned inward, So this is where the aggression may come from later on?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There you go; my rambling response was needless. I think you hit it on the head. They get confident enough to start turning some of that inward-directed anger outwards. Bingo.