Fear Issues?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

On the subject of behavioral problems, is anyone else here dealing with undesirable behaviors caused by fear issues? Things like barking, lunging, cowering, urinating, etc. because of fear of strangers, noises, etc.?
I have been working with Jack since I got him in January of 2006 on some of these, and recently was asked for ideas to help the foster mom of an extremely fear-aggressive dog. It is hard sometimes to have a dog whose psychological/behavioral problems cause him to act out in ways that others (not knowing his history) view with disapproval. I am wondering if anyone else here has a "special-needs" dog with some of these issues, and if so, what has worked for you in dealing with them?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

NO, you were typing and I didn't know this......... so I came in here with this question :) I have soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many questions.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Yes it answered a lot of my questions. Training--do I want to pursue training if she was already trained so stringent? I have been to a few trainers that still do chin nips! OMG--NOT

You also mentioned being to over protected to the dog--I have tried to think of her as my project, my job, as if I am "rehab" and not a dog I am adopting ( although, could I ever let her go and have her go through this again?), so I can remain objective to do the right thing for her. I worry if someone knows her story ( as the last owner did) the owner becomes so hung up in past bad experiences they can't bring her to the future because they pity too much.
No they will never be normal.

I am glad you all mentioned the submission/aggression. It gives me something to expect and look out for.
Thanks

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Explains why the Dog Pound filed down her teeth before she was permitted to leave. .

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

We may be missing a step here though: ( you can just ignore this if you want--sometimes I type just to hear what I am thinking)

Fear is anger turned inward. If they have anger than they are still fearful? If they are no longer fearful, then this anger goes away? So the object is, like you do Karen, is to expose them to everything to alleviate the fear. This is a broad spectrum. How do you find a happy medium or do you ever. Does it matter if you know this is what it is?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Exposing a dog to everything should be done for all dogs anyway, from the most well-adjusted breeder puppy to an abused adult rescue dog. That's what socialization is. I know many people think it's about dog parks and playing with other dogs, but it isn't. It is about getting them comfortable with every single situation that exists in our world, not theirs. For dogs like Lace & Jack, there are extra steps you have to take. You wouldn't have to help a normal puppy overcome his fear of walking down a quiet suburban street in broad daylight. So you & I have to start a few paces behind the pack.
There is no question that Jack is still more fearful than the average 5 year old dog, and I don't think that's ever going to completely level out. Anger, I don't really see him as being an angry dog, but there's no question that there is something that infuriates him in certain situations. Fear, anger, whatever it is, it has to be controlled first and analyzed second. We all know dogs who have had pleasant normal lives and still act impossible when visitors come to the house or they're at the vet, whatever, because they haven't been trained or socialized. I'd be willing to bet that Jack is better behaved and more relaxed at the vet than 90% of the dogs here on DK, because he's been so exposed to being at the vet that it's second nature now. So I think it doesn't matter that much if you know "what it is". You have to work with any dog, it's just the degree & the specific issues that differ. It matters that I know Jack is afraid of long cylindrical objects being held out at him, because then I can prevent that from happening. That I don't know for sure why but suspect it's because he was hit with a rolled-up newspaper doesn't matter as much.
You do eventually find a "happy medium", because for most of us, in every part of life there comes a "good enough" point...the point at which you are safe, satisfied and comfortable with the way things are and don't feel a need to make them better. And you get to that "good enough" point with your dogs, too, whether they're special needs dogs or $2500 breeder dogs. And as a foster mom, you get to that "good enough" point too; "Sweetheart, I have given you everything you need to live a happy life; we've both done a great job, and you're ready to be adopted." Good enough.
Will you worry? Sure. Just like you do when your kids grow up & go out into the world.

[Kyoko]

Hello~ I know it is a bit different for me and Charlie from Jack and Lace... But, here's a story....Charlie developed some sort of resorce guarding at some point. May be at 6 months olds or something. She did not want to share water with other dogs at the dog park, growling at them. Because she was young, and I did not want her to growl at the wrong dogs, plus I was told that she should not be rehearsing the negative behavior, we stopped going to the dog park.
It was the same time as she was entering the second fear stage... She discovered her voice and started to bark, and started to bark at strangers and strange dogs. She started to become fearful of little things like plastic bag being blown away by the wind, someone shutting the car door, yard decoration, etc....Through all of this time, she has been in school from Puppy K to CGC.... with wonderful trainer whom I trust, who use positive reinforcement only.
At her school, she was always a wonderful student, passed CGC with flying collar. She had no problems with other dogs, after the initial class, and she knew that they were there just as she was. However, her barking and growling at the strangers and strange dogs got more intense, making her look as a vicious dog. So, I started the private behavioral modification with the same trainer. After the extensive questionars, and interview she stated that Charlie is fearful and some are hardwired that way, she said. I don't know how she became this way. May be because Butter basically ignores her and just co-exist in our house even though Charlie always greet him by licking his face and showing affections? He did growl and warned her but he never approached her or try to get to her by any means. Any way, it has been about 2 1/2 months since the private started, Charlie is much much better with strange humans now. She can walk thorugh the pet store without barking at anyone, she can pass through the crowed shopping center without spazing out. What trainer said to me was to think that Charlie is autistic. Meaning that 1) Routine is very important for her. 2) Predictable situation is important to her and comforting to her - These two things are why she did well at school- Even though she passed CGC, she cannot do the same thing yet in an unpredictable place, situation, etc...3) Her personal space have to be respected 4) She has a high sensory issues.( Much sensitive to sound, touch, visual, etc...) This woman is amazing, only thing Charllie and I did was to play simple game, even though it took some time and consistant game play, it improved her behavior a lot. I continue to work with her so that Charlie can be fine with strange dogs, too and be able to play with them like she once used to....

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think this info is very helpful, Kyoko. We forget sometimes that individual dogs have different personalities just like people, and that certain things are born in them and not the result of abuse, neglect, etc.
"1) Routine is very important for her. 2) Predictable situation is important to her and comforting to her - These two things are why she did well at school- Even though she passed CGC, she cannot do the same thing yet in an unpredictable place, situation, etc...3) Her personal space have to be respected 4) She has a high sensory issues.( Much sensitive to sound, touch, visual, etc"
I think these things are key to approaching these issues in all dogs. After I read your post, I remembered an evaluation that a behaviorist did on Jack the first month I got him. I just dug out the paper, and here is what she wrote:
"Jack is
1) very visual
2) impressionable
3) sensitive
4) under-socialized
5) highly trainable"
Sounds similar, doesn't it?

[Kyoko]

Yeah. I was sort of sad at first about Charlie being this way. But, I figured that if she is hardwired to be this way, and was purchased by someone who is much less patient, she could have ended up at the shelter. So, she came to me for reason. I work with autistic kids, so I can understand in that term about her. When the level of anxiety rises, autistic kids would have a melt down. In Charlie's case, she spas out and growl/bark. I think we are very lucky to find the trainer who is perfect for both of us.

It really made me realize that just because she is a dog, it does not mean that she loves everyone and wags tail at everyone, and play nice with all dogs. Off cause the abuse and neglect adds a lot to the ones being and traumatic experiences cause one to react/respond in certain ways. And some are more resilient than the others... I think dogs like Jack and Lace came to the angels to be understood and loved.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Charlie came to an angel, too.

[Kyoko]

Thank you...

[LG & Sadie]

Karen, My Goldendoodle Sadie has some similar issues....I find I am telling complete strangers her tale of woe so as to explain her when she acts "off". I find if she is overtired things spiral pretty quickly downhill for her....almost like with a Toddler. Her types of aggression have been labeled, "treat, toy and fear aggression" and that feels pretty ominous because at our doggy outings someone always has treats (as do I) !! Sadie also has a pretty significant post traumatic stress issue. Her first 3 months of life were horrid. She has a seizure disorder, and has had a lot of physical health issues....pancreatitis once, ear infections galore-mostly from all the swimming, spent quite awhile finding just the right diet for her due to a heap of stomach distress...but, she is now on the upswing. Except for the behavioral issues. The strangest thing is she loves other people and dogs that are in her "bubble", does great at daycare socializing with other dogs in the controlled environment and really is so, so, so sweet. But, I am offering no answers-just support...I find I avoid situations I know will provoke her-and I know avoidance isn't an answer-but sometimes the fear is too heartbreaking to plow through with her. Yes-I am guilty of trying to protect & make things easier for her-big time~

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi-
I started this discussion well over a year ago, and Jack's fear issues are fortunately a thing of the past.
But for others who may be reading this, "socializing" a dog has absolutely nothing at all to do with the dog spending time with other dogs. Socializing as it applies to dogs means getting them accustomed to our society...the sounds, sights, and smells of human society. It does not mean "getting together with peers" as it does for humans. It is not a good idea to put a poorly socialized dog, especially a rescue, in the midst of a group of other dogs at a dog park or similar environment.
Socializng a dog means taking him out in public places where there are lots of different sights, sounds, smells, & people. Walking past school yards at recess. Going into stores, farmers' markets, street fairs, police stations, vets offices, etc. Just walking neighborhood streets, seeing & hearing garbage trucks, sirens, people walking, lawn ornaments, etc. It takes lots and lots of exposure and there are no easy answers. But they do eventually make progress.
I just wanted to clear up the "socializing" issue, as many people do not really understand what an under-socialized or well-socialized dog really means.