Should Members Be Allowed to Promote their Breeder in our Forum?

[Adina P]

[UPDATE: Since I started this thread, I've come to a decision on the matter that you will find below at the bottom of my discussion topic in bold.]

Hey DK Members,

The question that is the title of this discussion is something I'm struggling with right now. Here's the background to this dilemma:

Because I want this site to be free from SPAM as well as unfettered by constant ads or solicitations from members in the guise of discussions or blogs, our Community Guidelines have explicitly forbidden breeders from posting puppy or dog advertisements anywhere except on their own page or in the Labradoodle Puppies for Sale or Goldendoodle Puppies for Sale group (where they must answer questions about their program in each posting). We also forbid other forms of free advertising of one's own goods/services.

But what's unique about puppy/dog ads is that these deal with living creatures--not just a dog
painting, Les Poochs brush, or handbag with doodle embroidery. And in a world with numerous puppy mills and BYB's that can easily fool buyers when all they have to go by is a website, I want there to be some standards about such ads on DK. While I don't and can't do background checks on breeders and the phrase "buyer beware" should always apply because people need to do their own research first...I do try to raise expectations and educate. I ask that important questions about each breeder's program be answered in the aforementioned groups for three main reasons:

1) To discourage BYB's and puppy mills from posting ads
2) So breeders see the high standards that others are following
3) So buyers know there are high standards of testing/warranties and hopefully change their own buying criteria to reflect this (education!).

THUS...the reason I have chosen to keep doggy sales confined to certain groups with rules (not to mention ads are not fitting for a discussion forum).

So here is the dilemma that has been brought to my attention. When members post in the forum asking for recommendations on breeders, is it FAIR for members to pipe in with a plug for THEIR breeder and a link to that breeder's site when many of our active breeder members aren't allowed to also say they have some puppies available? It took me a while to see this point, but I am leaning toward 'not fair.'

Then what are we to do? How do we make this fair yet not become totally fast and loose with allowing ads in the forum? I don't want to get any stricter, so here are two options I'm considering and I'd like your input in general as well as which option you think makes more sense or if you see a THIRD option.

(Option A)
Neither Breeders NOR Non-breeder members may post breeder promos or links to breeder sites in the main forum. But members can discuss their breeder privately as they please. And of course members may always point to our article on What to Look for IN a Breeder as well as to the puppy sales groups. (not my favorite as it keeps education out of the main forum and makes things quite restrictive)

(Option B)
If someone has a breeder recommendation then they can write up a recommendation in the Owner Recommended Breeder group and LINK to said recommendation in the discussion at hand or if they cannot fill in the form adequately (due to not having been to the breeder's home, etc) then they can invite their breeder to post in the puppy sales group and then said member can post a LINK to the ad in the group in the discussion at hand. This at least utilizes the groups we already have and continues to do the education I intend.

(Option C)
Continue as usual but ALLOW breeder members to post to any recommendation they have in the Owner Recommended Breeder group AND to their ad in the puppy sales group on DK

I prefer either option B or C or a combo of both to be fair PLUS it utilizes current groups on DK and involves education of members.

And now for your thoughts on this breeder ad/member promoting breeders issue...

[NOTE: Here is the conclusion I reached...

"As I've thought about this more and read all your replies and arguments for the various options...it seems that the most fair and impartial is to go with option A. So let me reiterate what this will mean:

1) Neither members nor breeders may post breeder recommendations anywhere but in the Owner Recommended Breeder group and those recommendations, of course, must fit in with that group's rules/regulations.

2) Neither members nor breeders may post puppy/dog birth announcements or sales notices anywhere but in the Labradoodle Puppies for Sale or Goldendoodle Puppies for Sale group (there is an Australian Labradoodle Puppies for Sale group too I believe).

3) So when responding to an inquiry about a breeder or 'what breeder has a small, red male doodle for sale?" type posts, please direct the person to one of those groups listed above and/or to our What To Look for In a Breeder article.

4) IF you have a breeder recommendation you can:
A: talk to that person privately by leaving a comment on their page or by private message.
B: write up a breeder recommendation in the Owner Recommended Breeder group
C: invite your breeder to post an ad/puppy announcement in the sales group

SO...when a member starts a post asking for breeder recommendations or similar topic, please direct them to the above groups and engage them in a conversation about What to Look for in a Breeder (regardless of the article) and educate them rather than merely giving them a recommendation for YOUR breeder. Let's teach them WHY some breeders are worth the money and what would make a breeder NOT worth recommending rather than just link them to XYZ Kennels.

Our Community Guidelines will soon be updated to reflect this change."]

[F, Calla & Luca]

Adina, You are far too young to be so wise. We are lucky you are our fearless leader, henceforth OFL.

[Adina P]

You've ALWAYS been able to post anything on your "My Page" -- it is only things that go into the main site that are restricted.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I agree totally with your choice.

[Kyoko]

Thank you. I like this idea.

[DeeDee and Sheila]

Option A sounds fair. I remember when I started using this site, I didn't know enough to figure out how to post to ask who good breeders were. I liked the What to Look for in a Breeder page. I did ALOT of checking on this site and others, and I gradually began to piece together, like you did Natalie, what high standards were. I almost gave up wanting to get a doodle because I was so afraid of getting a badly bred one with tons of health problems, etc.

And I TOTALLY get now that you don't want this to be an advertising site. And as long as we can privately tell people what we think, and you are right, not just who we used as our breeder, but help with the education of people getting these dogs, that would be best.

I do appreciate knowing what products DKers use because it is expensive to buy new brushes (or even to know how much grooming is required), and why reinvent the wheel when we can help each other. I always mention to the store that I heard about their product on DK. I think that then maybe we will get better attention and service when we do order from their site. And I think they should appreciate the nice clients they will get from DK if they do a good job for our dogs.

In fact, this clarification was good just in general bc many newer people (like me) probably don't understand all the rules to begin with. It is a wonderful site and we should be careful with it.

I ALWAYS recommended to people to go visit the school they were going to send their deaf child to. Nothing can tell you more than feasting your eyes and ears and intuition on the actual grounds. And once you spot a "Diamond", they stick out glowingly. Even though it's hard and expensive to do that I feel that if I'm going to recommend something I need to have seen it.

Do we get some new pictures of Natalie soon? Or did I miss some of the newer ones?

[F, Calla & Luca]

There were pictures posted last evening.

[sandy b]

Will this eliminate the "Ads by Google" that show up on the right side of the page?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

No, those are what help provide the revenue for the site, and Adina has no control over them. All forum-type websites seem to have them, regardless of the format. Sometimes they're funny, because they change according to the key words in a discussion.