Aggression toward SOME other dogs!

[Deb, Connor & Simon]

Simon, my 10 month old standard ALD is the sweetest dog you would ever want. He is smart, affectionate, is in intermediate obedience and ADORES Connor my 2 yo goldendoodle. When we go out, however, if a new dog greets in a overly friendly, in-your-face but TOTALLY non-aggressive way, Simon wil growl, then snarl and lunge at the dog. Generally, I can feel the growl come up the lead before anyone hears it. I will move him aside, put him in a side down/stay and tell him CALM. He is not like this with every dog, but I get concerned when we go out because I'm not sure when he will go "Cranky!"
I have been working with a trainer on this for months. It is like he gets excited and even puppies/dogs he knows and likes, if they seem overly friendly towards him, he reacts this same way. A month ago, a young effervescent mini ALD he knows, bouncily approached him. I let him sniff, then pulled him back and put him in a sit/stay. He did fine. She kept wagging and smiling, Simon was looking up at me, wagging & looking happy. I released him from the sit, he gave the other pup some play signals, and when she responded, he seemed to panic, growled and reached up and grabbed a chunk of hair out of her head pouf!! I said no leave it!, quietly grounded him, said calm, and had him lie still for about 2-3 minutes. When I released him, he was fine but needless to say, the other dog and her owner had left. :-/
The latest thing I am trying is canned air (like you clean a computer keyboard with). If I feel (or hear) the growl, I pouf him on the back of the head with a quick blast of air. I've only done this once and he was so surprised, he just looked at me bewildered.
Simon is the sweetest, gentlest pup anyone would could want with people of all ages. He's great with kids, the elderly and everyone in between. His breeder says she had never seen that behavior before - he lived with 2 adults dogs and his littermates. Simon has been like this since the day we got him @ 4 months.
Anyone ever have a problem like this?????

[Adina P]

Is this always on-leash?
If it is...is there any reason he HAS to be allowed to greet other dogs on leash?

[Deb, Connor & Simon]

Yes, he's on leash. We have friends with dogs - nice dogs - that we see when we go to places where dogs are welcome. I would like for him to be able to greet without the growl.
I keep thinking he needs more socialization, but at the same time lately when we go out, when we see another dog approaching, I just say leave it! and keep walking.
We are still working on this...he is still in obedience classes. After seeing him GRRRRRRRRR at a goldendoodle who bounced at him a couple of weeks ago, everyone in the class keeps their distance from the "aggressive" dog.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jack is reactive to other dogs he hasn't met when on leash; off leash, absolutely no problem. It's very common and perfectly normal.
When dogs meet each other in unrestrained circumstances, they never approach each other head-on. They approach another dog at an angle from the side/rear. They then can check out the other dog (or be checked by him) without feeling trapped. A dog on a leash who has another dog coming directly at him head-on is in a very vulnerable position...he has no escape route, and in the fight-or-flight equation, you've left him with one choice...fight. It's your job to be sure you don't put him in that position. Don't allow other dogs to "rush" him when he is on-leash.
He doesn't have to "greet" other dogs on leash; he simply has to be able to co-exist with them in public situations.
There are ways to work with a dog who reacts to other dogs while walking on-leash...but they involve getting the dog's focus on you, and they have to start before the loud breathing and agitation does. If Simon's only problem is when another dog comes right up to him, he doesn't really have a problem, lol. If he can't walk past another dog on the opposite side of the street without growling, lunging or barking, we can help you with that.
An obedience class in which dogs are allowed to invade another dog's space by "bouncing" up to them is not a well-run class. The instructor should know better than to allow that, and I would speak to her about it.

[Deb, Connor & Simon]

Wow! I don't know why I didn't join this group sooner. :-)
The head of our therapy dog group told me Simon just doesn't like "rude" dogs who don't know how to greet. That's why the therapy dogs are supposed to keep a min of 2 feet between each other on a visit.

After seeing Simon's behavior on-leash, it would make me hesitant to let him off-leash to say "hello" though!
He does not growl/snarl /react until another dog is within inches of his face. Should I tell him "watch me" - put him in a sit/stay and tell the other owner he bites so they'll pull their dog back? As long as the other dog is not bouncing toward his face or "pushy" he is fine. We have two other easy going, polite ALDs who Simon does well on greeting and playing on-leash!

And Simon and Connor are like two doodle peas in a pod - and they play like maniacs!!

[Adina P]

Dogs often act 'different' on leash than they do off leash. So he may or may not respond the same way if he were to meet those dogs in a safe, fenced area off leash. There's something about being attached to a leash that makes some dogs defensive...because they know they can't escape or get away. He's probably a little nervous, uneasy and reacts defensively because he's stuck.

I would be hesitant about telling people he bites. Only because I would be afraid that statement might be used against me or the dog in the future. If someone hears he bites and then sees him in a situation where a 'biting' dog should not be...it could look really bad.

I just always tell people my dog's "In training" and he can't play/be petted/etc. when I don't want him to be. Just be honest and assertive. Once when I was out trying to train Rosco downtown, I kept a look out for people with dogs to help us with greetings (as in Rosco learning to stay by my side and NOT try to greet the person or dog). Most of the time the people with dogs had their dogs walking 6 feet in front of them (on leash) so I had to physically BLOCK Rosco from their dogs just so I could speak to the human. People don't seem to realize that a dog walking 6 feet ahead of you is a bit dangerous. It means you have NO control over that dog and he could get to something/someone/some dog way before you do or before you can do anything about it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The best are the ones on retractable leashes; after several very difficult run-ins with a stupid woman in our neighborhood who walks two tiny yapping Yorkies on retractable leashes where they are allowed the full 50 feet of cable, I released Jack from his "heel" one day when they rushed him, and simply held his leash and braced myself. No injuries occurred, but you can bet she won't let them rush another dog any time soon.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

That's so funny, Karen. I read this post after mine. Seems like we both have a "Yorkie" problem. When Murph gets a little bigger, I may give your approach a try. Let him defend his "little" brother.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm sure a trainer would say this was the wrong thing to do; but I work extremely hard to keep Jack focused and non-reactive when on-leash, it has been our greatest challenge outside of getting him over his initial fear issues when I first got him, and it is on-going on a daily basis. Toy dogs are the ones who started him on his reactive behaviors to other dogs while on-leash in the first place. He used to be very submissive to strange dogs; when he met the toys, he would actually lie down and let then walk right up to face to sniff him. After he did that twice with a particularly nasty shih-tzu and was bitten in the face for his trouble, he became reactive. Funny how the toy dog owners think it's cute when their dogs attack the big guys, but not so cute when the big guys stand up for themselves. You just get to a point where you're so exasperated, you lose your own focus and frankly, get PO'd.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can just about guarantee you that off-leash at a dog park, Simon would have no problem with any other dog. He might growl if a dog was really rushing him, but I doubt it even then. And other dogs know what that means and almost always back off.
Jack can be truly scary if another dog comes at him head-on while on-leash. I mean teeth-baring, snarling, bite-your-face-off scary. At the dog park, any dog in the world can run up to him and there is no reaction. He will ignore them or move away to avoid them.
When he is on-leash and sees one of his friends...dogs he knows well and has visited in their homes and ours...he leaps, pulls, and bounces like a joyful maniac and wants to immediately start a game of tag with them...dragging me along, lol. He knows them and is comfortable with them, so no
need for aggression or warnings.
Your therapy group instructor is absolutely right: Simon just doesn't like "rude" dogs who don't know how to greet. You know how you feel when a stranger at a social event comes right up into your face, and maybe even puts a hand on you or an arm around you? Now imagine that you have your back to a wall while this is happening. Wouldn't you want to ask the person to please give you some space? Would that be aggressive of you?
That's all Simon is doing...asking for some space.

[Adina P]

I agree. While it's best for us humans for our dogs to be okay with any dogs bouncing up to them to say "hello" -- that's not the case for all dogs.

So since this is hard for Simon...what *I* would do is always take each opportunity to do obedience training. Either using what he already does well or challenging him a wee bit beyond that.
Simon would always be in a sit stay next to me and I would do my best to not let the other dogs bounce into him. If he can sit-stay great ... GREAT! No reason to release him.

Rosco didn't have this issue of lunging aggressively on leash at other dogs. He would only lunge in excitement, but was okay with dogs in his space. He would just lose his head and get hyper and forget who was in charge.

So what we worked on wasn't the same, but the obedience was the same. My goal was for Rosco to be able to hold a sit stay (at least on leash) no matter how exuberant a visiting dog was (of course if a dog was aggressive that was NOT okay). We would practice heeling around the far end of a doggy play area. As he got more and more controlled in his heeling, we would heel closer to the playing dogs. We also did lots of stops and sit stays.

Eventually through consistent and regular practice we got to the point where Rosco would hold a sit stay near me at the end of heeling...WHILE a couple other dogs rushed to him and sniffed him all over. That was PROGRESS!!! I really didn't care if he got to play at all (he was already way passed a year old and had had plenty of social time and play with stranger dogs...I wanted full obedience control at this point) until I had really reliable obedience out of him. If and when I had excellent voice control over his actions...then I'd let him play off leash.

(With the disbanding of that group because a dog park was formed...our training was cut short and we never got full off leash control :-( Not enough opportunities to practice).

[Lynne B]

It's common for dogs to be reactive on lead- they feel trapped with no way to escape, and what makes it even worse, the first time that our dog growls at another dog, we are afraid it will happen again, so when we have our dog on lead and get near another dog, we start sending all kinds of tension and stress signals to our dog who now thinks it has a reason to be afraid.

I would look for a CPDT certified trainer http://www.ccpdt.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&Itemid=16 Your trainer saying she has never seen this before really surprises me, it is so common!

Dogs politely greeting one another on lead is one of the first things that our trainer works on in class, two dogs on lead walk past each other, you use a food lure to keep your dog focused on you (if necessary) and at first, you don't stop, just keep walking past the other dog. When your dog can do that calmly, you and the other dog owner tell your dogs "say hello" and you each stop for 3 seconds and then continue walking. The goal is not to have 2 dogs jumping all over each other on lead, my trainer says that should never be allowed, but simply to be able to go for a walk with your dog, and if you pass another dog you can feel comfortable that your dog will keep walking with you and not freak out. When she has a very reactive dog in the class, she uses a barrier covered with cloth so that the dogs pass each other without being able to see one another, once they get used to that she removes the barrier.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think our dogs look to us to keep them out of dangerous or uncertain situations....that's part of the trust bond. We have a neighbor who walks her two untrained Yorkies, and when I've been out with Guinness (on leash) she always comes right over with her dogs. They are very rude..yip and jump right at Guinness. Although he never growled, I could tell by his tail position he was extremely uncomfortable. I ended up having to tell her that we just couldn't allow them to "play" on leash anymore. I'm not sure she really "got it", and she probably thinks I'm overprotective, but his comfort has to come first. At Daycare where he is unleashed he has never had a problem. The situation with the ALD does seem to be a little different since he was inviting the play. Did she do something that he could have construed as threatening?