itching and allergies

[Jack & Cooper]

Cooper, male, MINI /OR SM. MED-31 LB.  now 10 months STARTED SCRATCHNG AT 5 MONTHS. HAVE SEEN 2 DERMATOLOGISTS AND 4 VETS. fIRST dermatologist GAVE BLOOD TEST AND SUBSEQUENTLY PUT HIM ON ALLERGY SHOTS.  AFTER ROYAL CANIN RABBIT AND SWEET POTATOE EXCLUSION DIET,  NOW ON DUCk AND SWEET POTATO COOKED BY ME.

 

2nd vet said it was premature to start such shots since he was never exposed to many of the allergens he allegedly was allergic to. Dust mites were at top of list as well as LI grasses and pollen (ragweed)  and trees. Bough Dyson vacs and changed bedding in our room using anaditallegen sheets and covers.

 

Now on 4th round of prednisone to control his itching. Tried fish oil and anti-histamines (4 of them) . careful about rinsing off soap from shampoo. Tried apple cider vonegar rinse.

 

Nothfing really stops the itching fbut steroid. We are frustrated but love the dog.He loves his bully sticks but they had tof go since he may be allergic to beef. Nsow on Revodlutuion heaRTWSORM SINCE ALTERNATIVE WAS MEAT FLAVORED AN D WE WERE WARNED IT COULD TRIGGER ALLERGIC REACTION TOO.

 

Anyone else out there with some suggestions? WE have spent several thousand dollars.

Also holistsic vet  who wanted to usde acupuncture, homeopathics and new food. had to abandon supplement- NuVets b/c it contains chicken liver.

 

had to stop vitamins upplement -NuVets b/c dfdit contains chicken liver.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Because I see that we are getting further into the realm of food allergies, as is usually the case, let me repeat the statistic here. Out of every 100 dogs, 10 has any kind of allergy to anything. Out of those 10 allergic dogs, only one of them has an allergy to any kind of food. The odds are 9-1 against a dog's allergy symptoms being caused by food of any kind.
Food allergies are much rarer than people think.
It is actually much easier to know which environmental allergens are the triggers than it is to know if it's food; the skin tests tell us about the environmental allergens, but there is no test for food allergies other than rigid food trials that take many months.

[Melissa & Porter]

5,800+ members here.
That means it is statistically likely for 58 dogs here to have food allergies.
And given that these message boards self-select for people having issues and needing advice, I wouldn't be surprised if that number were higher. I think plenty of people see real connections between their dogs' diet and skin problems...at least 58 :-)

Has anyone ever read if it is possible for dogs to be allergic to humans? I wondered about that when Porter's itchiness started when all my skin starts to flake off. The other temporal coincidence was the oil heat cranking in my house.

[Ann Kendig]

My Duke was just tested for allergies. He did have a reaction to cat and dog dander but not to human dander. So I guess that means they can be allergic....right Karen????

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Dust mites feed on human dander, and that's why the concentration of dust mites is highest in bedrooms. So that could account for Porter's increased itchiness when your skin is flaking. The dust mite population is higher then.
Ann, I think human dander was one of the allergens tested for, wasn't it? So even though Duke wasn't positive for it, some dogs might be.
Jack is allergic to cat dander.

Melissa, I want to address the issue of people seeing a connection between their dogs' skin problems and their diets, because this is an issue of great interest and importance to me.
When Jack first began to have symptoms, it never occurred to me that it could be connected with food in any way, maybe because I had some basic understanding of allergies and personal family experience with the human version of atopic dermatitis. But when I went into the forums looking for advice or other people whose dogs had similar problems, all anyone talked about was food...and shampoo, a little bit. This really surprised me, that so many people think of food immediately when they hear "allergies". So I started to do some research about why this might be.
The first thing I found was a phenomenom called "perceived allergies". This is where a person believes that he or a close family member (usually a child) is allergic to something, without having had any kind of testing or medical confirmation. There have actually been studies done on this, and one conclusion was that 60% of people who say that they (or a loved one) have allergies, in fact do not have allergies.
The next thing I found was that people confuse an intolerance with an allergy, because they do not understand that an allergy is a disease of the immune system, and it causes an actual measurable response in blood chemistry. People think that if something bothers them, they are allergic to it. This can range from a particular food causing indigestion to a particular smell making someone feel queasy. But those are not allergies. So you have people saying their dog is allergic to beef, because the dog gets diarrhea when he eats beef. The dog is on fact not allergic to anything, beef just doesn't agree with him.
The third thing I found is the phenomenom of the numbers of people who complain of a particular physical ailment skyrocketing when that particular illness gets widespread media attention. Think about carpal tunnel syndrome, if you are old enough to remember that. For awhile after this disease got media attaention, it seemd that every other person you saw was wearing a wrist brace. I haven't seen many of those lately, have you? Do you think they all got cured, lol? The attention to peanut allergies in children in recent years has greatly oncreased the numbers of people who believe incorrectly that they or their children are allergic to peanuts or some other food.
Many of the people in dog forums who say their dogs are allergic to a certain food are basing it on digestive issues, which are never the result of food allergies. it is also hard for many people to understand that when dogs have allergies to pollen or inhalants, they itch, rather than sneeze. People associate itching with food and sneezing with "hay fever' allaergies, so if the dog is itching, they think it's because of food. Or they think that if the skin is itchy, it's because of soemthing that the skin has been in contact with. This is why you hear people refer to "skin allergies". They don't understand that the itching is coming from an immune reaction to particles that have been inhaled. Misinformation on raw feeding forums and websites have greatly increased this misconception. Another thing that complicates this is the fact that storage mite allergies are on a steep rise in humans as well as dogs. If a person changes their dog's food from a cheaper grocery store brand to a premium food or to homecooking, a dog whose allergies are to storage mites might suddenly have an improvement. The owner may conclude that the dog was allergic to something in the food, which in a sense he was...but he doesn't have a food allergy. he's allergic to the storage mites that were eliminated.
Food allergies are much rarer than the comments on dog forums would have you believe. It is very difficult to pinpoint particular food allergies. In addition, a dog has to be have been eating the same food continuously for at least 6 months and usually a year in order to develop a food allergy.
So yes, it might seem that the number is higher, based on what you see in forums. But that simply isn't the case. All the dogs whose powners think they have food allergies do not in fact have food allergies.

[Ann Kendig]

Yes, Duke is allergic to cat & dog dander, but not people dander.

[Melissa & Porter]

Karen,

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I didn't want to gloss over the really interesting stuff you bring up, and I had Porter's annual check-up today so I figured I'd wait.

My vet, who is the kind of guy who reads a lot of journals and goes to conferences, has always told me that environmental allergies are a bigger possibility than food. But he thinks that most dogs with allergies have more than one trigger. Usually you hope to control/figure out at least one allergy and that can bring your dogs issues down to a bearable level, but others are present and that makes the whole thing confusing.

As for food allergies, his stats are food accounts for 20% of the 20% of dogs with allergies (so twice your number, but still small).

He says that some new research shows atopic dermatitis is from both inhaling the allergen and from contact on the skin. So water baths may help. On the flip side, there is a forefront scientist/vet in Louisiana (sorry I got no name) who thinks food allergies are under-diagnosed/estimated.

Oh, and there is some expensive med, atopica, that works well....on some dogs.

Bottom line for Porter was, jump to the antihistamines asap if the licking, scratching threatens the skin. If you let it get that far, you are looking at steroids and antibiotics for the secondary bacterial infection. Steroids are not the end of the world, but the goal is to control things early on.

(This is likely all stuff you already knew :-)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Atopica is the veterinary version of cyclosporine, which is a very powerful immunosuppressant used in organ recipients to prevent organ rejection. It's extremely expensive and has lots and lots of side effects; we will have to go to it if the immunotherapy fails.
Atopic Dermatitis is caused by a malfunction in the immune system of allergic individuals, and produces an IgE response from the immune system on a cellular level. The allergens have to enter the bloodstream either through ingestion or inhalation in order for a histamine response to occur; so it is not correct that contact on the skin can cause an atopic reaction. However, your vet is correct insofar that pollens and other allergens on the dog's coat exaberate the problem, because they then are breathed in and also brought into the house. Last year during Jack's bad season, we had to bathe him every week, which greatly helped.
Your vet is also correct that most dogs with severe allergies have more than one trigger; but it's usually multiple environmental triggers. All of us whose dogs have been tested and are being treated have tested positive to more than a dozen types of molds, pollens, mites, etc. I'd bet most dogs would test positive to something, but that doesn't cause their immune systems enough trouble for it to even be noticeable. Jack got through most of the year on antihistamines & EFAs, even though he is allergic to dust mites, storage mites, molds, etc.
But Atopic Dermatitis gets much more severe the older a dog gets. They go from symptoms 2 months out of the year to symptoms year round. You can't keep a dog on steroids 365 days a year. year in and year out. And at that point, the immunotherapy treatments are less than half as effective as they are when started earlier.
So if your goal is to "control things early", you get the testing done as early as possible. I am very lucky that so far Jack is doing well on his immunotherapy, because having delayed his testing a year (for many of the same rationalizations being voiced here) did him immeasurable harm.
Also, it is virtually impossible for a dog younger than 7 months old to have a food allergy. Just as the example was given above about a dog's having been exposed to a substance twice to develop an allergic response, it takes 6 months of eating the same food for a dog to develop a systemic allergic response to it. Since dogs do not eat solids until they are at least 1 month old, any dog showing allergy symptoms before 7 months of age probably doesn't have food allergies.
But at this point, I am just going to say that I have tried very hard to help others who are dealing with this, because i had nowhere to turn for advice and had to figure this out on my own, and it is a very scary and lonely way way to go, when a dog you love is suffering. There is no benefit to me if anyone takes my advice or if they don't; I am trying to help for the purest and most unselfish motives possible. And my track record with those DK members who have taken my advice on food & allergy issues is pretty good,as you may have noticed.
So at this point, I will no longer volunteer help or advice to those who don't want it, lol. There are enough people asking me for advice in TFG, in the A.D. Support group, and thru private messages to keep me busy.
I wish you all a lot of luck and hope your dogs do well.

[Melissa & Porter]

I do immunotherapy for me--after a year, I would say I am 50% improved. I guess I can do it for Porter too. Hmmm. Thank you for your help.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The statistics for dogs are much better re: immunotherapy success rates. 70-75% for dogs. In people, one third are not helped, one third are helped for a while but then relapse, and one third have continuing relief.
Jack was not the best candidate, due to age & the severity of his allergens, and he has not had any steroids or other drugs since January 2009. Just Claritin and evening primrose oil capsules. No drugs, no chemicals, no side effects, nothing. No infections. And immunotherapy shots are the most holistic, homeopathic treatment there is. Formulated specifically for your individual dog to help his immune system function normally and tolerate these ordinary, unavoidable every day substances rather than fight them.

[Melissa & Porter]

I wonder if animals can take Xolair? That is an IgE mediated drug, not confirmed possible side-effect of cancer. People with major mold problems, ABPA for example, feel it is a life-saver.
http://www.upmc.com/healthatoz/pages/healthlibrary.aspx?chunkiid=22500

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Aspergillus is one of the fungi tested for in the skin testing. Ann's Duke came up positive for it. I don't think dogs get ABPA, though. An aspergillus allergy manifests the same way as all the other allergies do, with the itching and skin problems. All molds allergies in dogs cause the skin symptoms, not respiratory ones as they do in humans. Since Xolair is an asthma medication primarily used for respiratory problems, I don't think it would be appropriate for dogs.
Atopica has been linked to cancer, too. When you play with the immune system, you play with fire. But sometimes, you have no choice.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here are some helpful links:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_inhalant_allergies.html
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_food_allergies.html
http://marvistavet.com/html/body_itch_relief.html