itching and allergies

[Jack & Cooper]

Cooper, male, MINI /OR SM. MED-31 LB.  now 10 months STARTED SCRATCHNG AT 5 MONTHS. HAVE SEEN 2 DERMATOLOGISTS AND 4 VETS. fIRST dermatologist GAVE BLOOD TEST AND SUBSEQUENTLY PUT HIM ON ALLERGY SHOTS.  AFTER ROYAL CANIN RABBIT AND SWEET POTATOE EXCLUSION DIET,  NOW ON DUCk AND SWEET POTATO COOKED BY ME.

 

2nd vet said it was premature to start such shots since he was never exposed to many of the allergens he allegedly was allergic to. Dust mites were at top of list as well as LI grasses and pollen (ragweed)  and trees. Bough Dyson vacs and changed bedding in our room using anaditallegen sheets and covers.

 

Now on 4th round of prednisone to control his itching. Tried fish oil and anti-histamines (4 of them) . careful about rinsing off soap from shampoo. Tried apple cider vonegar rinse.

 

Nothfing really stops the itching fbut steroid. We are frustrated but love the dog.He loves his bully sticks but they had tof go since he may be allergic to beef. Nsow on Revodlutuion heaRTWSORM SINCE ALTERNATIVE WAS MEAT FLAVORED AN D WE WERE WARNED IT COULD TRIGGER ALLERGIC REACTION TOO.

 

Anyone else out there with some suggestions? WE have spent several thousand dollars.

Also holistsic vet  who wanted to usde acupuncture, homeopathics and new food. had to abandon supplement- NuVets b/c it contains chicken liver.

 

had to stop vitamins upplement -NuVets b/c dfdit contains chicken liver.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jacki, did you consult with board certified veterinary dermatology specialists? What you are describing does not make sense if you did. An ACVD specialist would never start immunotherapy shots based on blood tests, which have been shown to be unreliable. They would have done a skin test, which is the gold standard for allergy testing.
It also doesn't make sense for anyone to say that the dog was never exposed to dustmites, as they are everywhere, and of course he was exposed. Many of us here have atopic dogs who have dust mite allergies. Also, an accredited specialist would never prefer long-term steroid treatment, which is guaranteed to shorten your dog's life, over immunotherapy shots.
Here is a link to the ACVD website where you can find a board-certified veterinary dermatology specialist in your area. This is really what you need, to find a doctor who can help your dog. Many of us are dealing with this disease, and this is really the only way to find help for your dog. The food issues have nothing to do with it and chances are great that your dog is not allergic to beef or chicken liver or any other food.
Find a specialist in your area who is on this list and run...do not walk...to see them.
https://www.acvd.org/

[Adina P]

I dont think she meant that he was never exposed to dustmites... merely that those were one of the allergens but others he was not likely exposed to yet.

[Jack & Cooper]

Hi: Thanks for your reply. The first dermatologist is board certified, and is with LIVS, Plainview. The second dermatolgist refuted the first dermatologist's findings and treatment. So therefore, we have returned to the exclusion diet; homemade duck and sweet potato, and we have stopped the immunotherapy for now. The second derm (also board certified from ACVD), does recommend skin testing, but not until 1 1/2 years of age. The first derm did suggest that some dogs do require long term steroids, which we were not comfortable with, so that's what lead us to seek a 2nd opinion. As far as the dust mites, yes, of course, we all have encountered them. What I was trying to say, was that according to Derm #1, Cooper was allergic to some things (ie Maple trees), not including dust mites, which he could not have come into contact with at his age! So therefore, the findings of the blood work was suspect.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, I really don't know what to say. My dog is 5 years old and has been under the care of a specialist for 2 years. Prior to having him tested, I researched this as extensively as possible, and from everything I have been able to find, the blood tests are unreliable and I have never heard of a specialist formulating antigens and starting immunotherapy based on blood test results. We have a member here whose dog was just skin-tested a week after his first birthday. Diet will not affect atopic dermatitis, which it sure sounds like your dog has; and if the 2nd dermatologist recommends skin-testing, even if it is at a later date, then she also suspects atopy, so there is really no reason for you to continue with the exclusion diet. Skin-testing is never done for food allergies.
I still also don't understand the issue of Cooper not having come into contact with some of the allergens. Pollen, including maple pollen, travels hundreds of miles; it's in the air he breathes. The dog doesn't have to actually touch a maple tree or any of the other things he's allergic to, and certainly the specialist should know that.
The only time a dog would "require" long-term steroids would be if the other two treatment options, immunotherapy or Atopica, fail, or if an owner chooses not to try them.
Is Cooper getting EFAs or antihistamines? That is pretty standard treatment for this, too, and usually helps.
I am really sorry that you and Cooper are going through this. I can usually help, but if two specialists don't have any help for you other than steroids, I really don't know what to advise you. I hate to tell you to find a third specialist, but IMO, he really needs to have the skin testing done and start immunotherapy shots.
At least let him eat a wider variety of foods, it's definitely not food related and therefore will not be helped by limiting his diet.
I wish I could offer more help.

[Jack & Cooper]

I certainly have opened a can of worms! To clarify a couple of issues: Firstly, an animal or human, must come into contact with an allergen at least twice to develop an allergy. No allergic reaction can occur during a first exposure. Secondly, Cooper, at 7 months was tested for a battery of blood tests. However, logic prevails in the reality that at the time of Cooper's testing certain trees/grasses etc, had not been in bloom or released it's pollen during his lifetime. Therefore, he could not have been exposed to it, and this would be considered a false positive. An example might be "Maple" which emits it's pollen in May. If Cooper was born in June 2009, then he would not be exposed to it until May, 2010. I am not suggesting that he actually has to "touch" an inhaled allergen, but it does have to be in bloom for him to develop an allergy.

Yes, Cooper is on EFA's and we have judiciously tried 5 different anti-histamines, each for two week trials, but they have not proven to be effective. We are not sure if this is a food allergy or atopy, though atopy does seem more likely at this point. However, before we initiate skin testing, we want to be 100% sure it is not a food allergy. I am not sure how you can state is "not food related,' when board certified veterinary dermatologists (certified by the organization you had previously recommended we research) have yet to rule it out. In addition, if it is atopy, then Cooper is likely to develop other allergens when he comes into contact with them this spring and summer, making the current testing results obsolete. So therefore, it does seem to be prudent to wait a little longer to have him skin tested. Remember Cooper is only 10 months old, and most Board Certified Dermatologists will not do skin testing until at least 12 to 18 months of age.

I joined this forum for some friendly advice, and to share information about what has worked or not worked for the participants. I appreciate your passionate concern and advice, but you, nor I, nor the vet can be 100% certain of anything at this point. So therefore I welcome hearing from others about their story and what has been successful (or not).

[F, Calla & Luca]

I have no personal experience with allergic dogs. I think your point about the maple pollen is a very good one.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks for clarifying about the time frame for the exposure to the pollens based on Cooper's age. That does make sense.
My first response was that the blood tests are not reliable, and it seems that was a correct assessment, as the results are now being questioned. It was and is puzzling to me that the immunotherapy was initiated based on those tests.
Regarding the antihistamines, I was advised to give them a three week trial when switching from one another. We had the best results with loratidine, 30 mg/day, combined with 500 mg evening primrose oil, 2x /day.
I have a support group here on Doodle Kisses for owners of dogs with atopic dermatitis. When and if you get an answer, you are welcome to join us.
Good luck, I hope you find a solution for Cooper's problems.

[Melissa & Porter]

My sympathies.
Porter has a milder version of that, but I feel your frustration. Porter itches a lot and has thin/rough spots around his arm pits from the scratching. But it is bearable, in my mind "bearable" means he doesn't break his skin and he doesn't scratch all that much during the day. Putting him on California Natural Lamb and Rice plus 1000 mg of evening primrose oil/day seems to have helped. His itching started at 11-12 months a couple weeks after we started treating him with Zantac for reflux. The reflux is gone, no more meds for that either, but the itching persists.

[Ann Kendig]

Karen, question regarding Jacki's statement...

"2nd vet said it was premature to start such shots since he was never exposed to many of the allergens he allegedly was allergic to".

Do the results of Duke's tests mean that he has been exposed to everything he had a reaction to? Sorry, still dumb about this stuff...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes; I just checked and deleted my original answer so I could be sure. From the info I got from Jack's specialist:

"Canine atopic dermatitis (allergic dermatitis, canine atopy) is an inherited predisposition to develop allergic symptoms following repeated exposure to some otherwise harmless substance, an "allergen," such as dust mites or pollen. Most dogs begin to show their allergic signs between 1 and 3 years of age."

[Ann Kendig]

Thanks Karen!

[Liza, Halle and Finn]

My sympathies as well. I know exactly your frustrations. We've been dealing with our F1 GD's food and environmental allergy issues for over a year (he just turned two).We know for a fact that he has food allergies to milk products, chicken, perservatives to name a few, but which environmental ones is just too hard too know. (I was actually keeping a log of the allergy index in our area, and comparing it to Kachi's good/bad days, and it just became impossible!) In January, his problems spiked, and he was absolutely miserable. It was at this time, our vet put us on a new very strict program, saying if it didn't work, then our next step was the doggy dermatologist. We got serious. Kachi is allowed nothing to eat but his venison/sweet potato & herring/sweet potato food combined w Omega fatty acids. (He was already on a food trial, but we would slip up quite a bit of the time which compounded his problems.) He was also put on an antifungal medicine (because bacteria seeps into where they scratch causing more problems and more itchies), an antibiotic (because he had an ear infection, and an open sore on his mouth from scratching), antihistamine/steriod, & topical ear antibiotic. After 30 days of that program, most of the meds were stopped, except the strict diet (even his treats are venison/sweet potato)the omega fatty acids, and the antihistamine(that evidently has a small amount of steriod in it). And knock on wood, he has been doing fantastic (its been 2 months since we started)! The pollen/weed/etc count is soaring, and he hasn't started licking! I hate that he has to be on this type of medication long term, and we always feel sorry for him at Pet Smart, and other places when they offer treats, and he sits real nicely waiting, but mommy has to say no! But I'm sure he appreciates not having to spend good sleeping hours lying awake licking, licking, licking! Best of luck to you and your Cooper!