labradoodle sizes

[peggy]

i am thinking of getting a labradoodle even though others suggest a goldendoodle. i think either one is a good choice. ...does anyone know the answer?  if the female lab is 52lbs. and the sire is 11 lbs. what will be the weight of the puppies. the vet says 30 / 35lbs. we have always had small dogs(jack russels) . thanks for your help.

[Diane Dolphin Rocker]

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned the size difference! Crazy bad things can happen with that. This is from the ALAA website: "When breeding dogs a breeder should NEVER breed two dogs together that vary more than 4-5 inches in height. Bone structure and weight are critically related. In reducing the size of dogs a breeder should be gradually reducing the litters by breeding two dogs not more than 4-5 inches in height variance together, selecting a top example in the offspring, then breeding that dog to an unrelated dog not more than 4-5 inches shorter and again selecting an offspring. This practice gradually reduces the offspring in each litter about 2 to 3 inches. Generally, reducing the line by 6 inches within 3 generations results. If you find a breeder breeding a toy poodle to a lab, cross them off your selection list. This should NEVER be done and is a backward step in the producing healthy Labradoodles." IMHO, they are just looking for trouble with this match.

Even with parents that are very similarly matched, the dogs behind them in the pedigree play a huge role. In my last litter of Australian Labradoodles, I bred dogs who were 33 and 36lbs together....you would think the pups would be pretty consistent, right? Wrong! LOL I'm thinking there may be a few that hit 50lbs, due to some larger dogs in the stud's pedigree. Just saying that NOTHING is guaranteed where Mother Nature is concerned!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I have read about this too and I think we discussed it on DK. I think it's asking for trouble as well.

[peggy]

I have read on many sites that breeders are inseminating little dogs to big dogs. You are the 1st to say anything is wrong with it. Is this an opinion or fact? The breeder I have been talking with has a lab that weighs 52lbs. and her vet tech has an 11lb poodle. Her vet tech said they should weigh 30/35 lbs. How can an experienced breeder mate the 2 and everything is okay and not a hobby breeder? So you are saying nobody can really tell how big one of the doodles will get. So how can a breeder guarantee a petite doodle? Just trying to clarify all this. I have been talking with this family for a couple of weeks. They aren’t in it for the money as they were breeding for their daughter to have a puppy. But I don’t want a dog that is going to have bad legs b/c of the size difference. But every site I see they have the 2 …maybe they are f1b dogs. Is that the difference? Does that make it healthier than an f1? I am going to see the dogs this Saturday meeting the mother of the pups and all the pups are raised in their home with their 15 year old. So I thought I was doing good finding a doodle that was being loved by the family as they were growing. I have been to a puppy mill and was disgusted by it. So I thought I was on the right track. I am about to give up on getting a doodle. Maybe I will get a Westie. But I wanted a water dog b/c we are always around water..pool and lake house. Any recommendations on a reasonable breeder on small doodles in GA?

[Diane Dolphin Rocker]

LOL- I'm certainly not the first to say this is a problem! The quote from my response above is a taken directly from the ALAA's website (breeder pages). It was written by collective group of breeders who have WAY more experience in breeding than I do, and it makes perfect sense to me. (My neighbor next door has a little mix of unknown origins whose back legs are much longer than the front legs and it has broken it's leg 3X just going down steps....I imagine a size diff in the parents is probably to blame (but that is just my Opinion).) I think you may find the pairing on many sites because those breeders are trying to breed the minis that are so popular, but they are not taking the time to educate themselves on how to do it properly. The ALAA is stating no more than 5"....that is really a pretty big difference in dogs. You may also be seeing mini poodles (which are very often much larger than 11lbs) and smaller retrievers that are not all that different in size.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to predict size. But it's not easy. Any time it is a new pairing between 2 dogs, it is harder to predict than if it is a repeat breeding. You definitely need to take into consideration the dogs behind them in the pedigree. No breeder can guarantee a size. It is their best estimate based on previous experience. It's not just some mid-point between the 2 like they are mixing paint.

Doodles can be great dogs! Don't give up on your search just because this may not be the right litter for you. There is a list of recommended breeders on this site, as well as the ALAA, or the ALCA. Those are all good places to start. It's good that you are asking questions and doing your homework.

[Adina P]

"It's not just some mid-point between the 2 like they are mixing paint."

THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT point when it comes to mixing two breeds.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If I'm understanding you correctly, what you are looking for is a small dog, preferably with a low-to-non-shedding coat, who enjoys the water. There are any number of breeds and mixes that would fit the bill.
Labradoodles are not guaranteed to be "water dogs"...many do love to swim, but just as many don't. My own doodle is a first generation standard LD, and he absolutely hates the water. I think any puppy who spends a lot of time around water activities from the time he is very young would most likely grow up to enjoy them, Westies included. And the coat care would also be much easier than a doodle's.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

Great post, I was going to write the same thing, The size difference is too much, IMHO.

[Donna K & Quincy]

Yesterday we met a 4 mos old goldendoodle who is supposed to be a mini. Mom was an American Retriever and Dad was a minature Poodle. I'm no expert but judging by his current size he is going to be biigger than they are expecting.

[Adina P]

It doesn't matter what a breeder calls themselves: "professional" - "hobby" - "family" - "farm" - "commercial" - "experienced" -- all of these titles aren't very useful in and of themselves. What you want is a breeder who is responsible and breeds to high standards. Period. Anyone can call themselves 'good' and have a pretty website, with cute puppies (all puppies are cute!) but the proof is in their practices.

So what should these high standards be? Well...for starters read our article on What To Look for In a Breeder -- you'll find some very important criteria included.

As far as health goes, it also doesn't really matter whether a dog is an F1 mix, an F1b mix, a multigenerational mix, or a purebred dog. What increases the likelihood of a dog being healthy is its background. Are the parents healthy? Are/were the grandparents healthy from healthy lines? Do the parents have health clearances like hip testing, eye testing, elbow testing, vwd clearance, etc? There are some things you can NOT test for, but hopefully both of the parent dogs are purchased from breeders who themselves did health testing and knew the health of their lines very well.