To Ban or Not to Ban Pit Bulls?

[Adina P]

How do you feel about Pit Bulls...while the topic has come up before, I wanted everyone to read this article by well known author, Malcolm Gladwell:

http://www.gladwell.com/2006/2006_02_06_a_pitbull.html

After reading his arguments...what do you think?

[Adina P]

Really cool! What can I say? They are beautiful dog specimens! Still scared of random ones I see, but I think they are handsome doggies. And my impression is that a GOOD pit bull is an awesome pet.

[Amanda and Quinn]

I found some good information on this forum after my first bad experience. I found it so interesting that most of the people who love and understand the breed know that it comes with real challenges. They all advocate keeping pits out of off leash areas, keeping a break stick on hand in case of emergencies, etc. I just think it would be helpful if all pit owners knew this from the get go - I think a lot of people want to rescue a dog and have the best of intentions but aren't prepared for the reality because they've only seen Dog Town or the Dog Whisperer and think that they are completely misunderstood because of bad press.

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/forums.php

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

I agree with what everyone is saying about how it is the owner who is the problem though I still feel that if two abusive owners get their two pit bulls together for breeding, the littler with be tainted...IMO. I know that in some areas you can not get Homeowner's Insurance if you own a Pit Bull or Rottie. But, there is no check or balance. You have had your policy for years and then get a dog. Who checks up to see if your HO policy needs to be canceled? My next door neighbor is on their third Rottie. This one has never been socialized and even my trainer who they hired quit them because there were too many people in the house and no one would step up and be the Alpha person. You all need to be on the same page when training. The trainer also saw some warning signs about aggressiveness in this dog. This is the one who has attacked Gracie twice while on a leash.

But back to the Pit Bulls. We have a Wednesday Farmer's Market every week down in Ocean Beach (our beach communitiy). There was an 80 something little lady who was attacked for no reason and killed by a Pit Bull last year. Also another attack and the police had to shoot the dog. Also an attack agaist a Boxer puppy where the store owners intervened. It was a loser youth who owned the Pitt Bull and he just turned and took the dog back to the Youth Hostle where they were staying. He never even showed concen over the bleeding puppy. Everyone takes their dogs to the market and it should be a fun social experience but it is not. I have taken Gracie a few times and she is totally intimidated by these dogs. I don't think that is fair to good dog owners to not be able to enjoy an outing to a Farmer's Market on a nice day with their dog!!

Okay, I digressed and ranted. The thought I had was that maybe the breeders should be controlled. But we know that won't work. Otherwise there would be no puppy mills! I think that somehow it would be nice if the future owner had to been carefully screened to find out their living conditions and financial responsibilities. Do they have a fenced yard, a job, are they a good citizen...I could go on an on and as I write this I see how impossible this would all be to try to dictate to people what kind of dog they could or could not have. I guess it just hits me harder because when you live in a beach community in California where the weather is nice pretty much year round, you attract all the losers and homeless people. Because of them, the Pitt Bulls/Rotties are getting a bad rap. We are overwhelmed with them! And, under the circumstances I too have to say I am not fond of the breeds!! Rant, Rant, Rant...so sorry!






Okay, I digressed and rabbe

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

You're right that most insurance companies will not check to see if most insureds have added a "restricted breed dog" for their in force business unless (1) there is a claim history which usually precipitates a full reunderwriting of the policy to determine if the policy should be renewed or (2) policies with the higher liability limits (there is usually a renewal questionnaire sent every couple of years on these policies). Most companies will screen for restricted breeds when writing a new business policy, but it is not cost beneficial to revalidate eligibility every year unless there are high liability limits at stake or there is negative history on the policy. I absolutely believe in breed restrictions (data based) are appropriate in insurance. I have been involved in enough heartbreaking claims that ruined the lives of innocent people to be a believer. But that is my emotional side talking. On a more rational level, it's just hard to argue with credible experience data.

[Adina P]

Well geeeez...this was really popular and I STILL don't have time to contribute my thoughts! :( I will as soon as that time appears!

[GBK]

I have such mixed feelings on the banning issue..... I have a met some wonderful people with love bug pit bulls, I have met some very scary clueless pit owners, and then their are the downright criminal owners. Here in Vegas you have ALL kinds of people breeding "pit bulls" they are all different sizes and temperaments. Their are fighting lines here and pet type, and the shelters are overflowing!

My dogs have played with puppies time and again at the park and once they reach a certain age we never see them again. We go to breakfast with the dogs and meet up with our doodle friends but have to be wary of the next table because the pit on the leash is eyeing and growling at our dogs. One of my best friends is dating a man with two sweet and wonderful pits, but only to people, one would fight to the death with a strange dog and they had a wonderful upbringing. I was told he reached a certain age and it was like a switch turned on. The ignorant people that show up at the dog park with their newly adopted pit from the shelter, "gee we just brought fido home today" please, give me a break, don't test your new dog out on mine to see if they are friendly.........

Yes I totally agree that owners should be educated and treat their dogs with respect and love and training, but a perfect world this is not. I got the shock of my life the other week. We walked around the corner of OUR block on the way home from an evening walk with the doodles and a pit bull streaks out of a garage and starts in on Buddy and Kona. Thank god the owner was right there to pull him off, we were all terrified. The owner apologized profusely, he was afraid I was going to report him to animal control. He said he has had his dog for ten years and is really attached to him, I told him I wasn't going to call this time, but that there better not be a next time, this is my block too and we walk it quite often!!! I have no tolerance for people who let their dogs out off leash to bother other people and dogs who are walking nicely ON leash.

Can we ban the Stupid people??? I have a hard time getting my mind around allowing a breed that has had such a fight instinct towards other dogs bred into them for so long and being allowed to interact at places like a dog park. I do get nervous when there are too many pits in the park and we move along to other areas or leave. I would hate to ban any breed of dog, but these guys worry me more than most.......

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

This looks like a good program and we should have one in every major city and then some. But...just take a look at the collars they have on those dogs. That is one of the first things I look for. Huge, massive, pronged and that is enough for me to go the other way!

[Adina P]

I haven't read everyone's responses, but here's my opinion (though I'm sure I'll think of things later too):

My initial emotional response to a pit is: What a beautiful dog that better not get close to me or my child or my dog! I really do think many pits are beautiful animals. Strong, athletic, slick looking. But I also think of: scary, unstoppable, manstopper, who might rip my dog's neck off in the wrong circumstance. I don't think all pits are going to hurt me or Rosco. If I see someone walking one up ahead and I'm alone or only with other people, I'm okay. If I have Rosco with me, my heart starts beating faster UNLESS whoever is walking that pit appears to have some real control over their dog (dog is not pulling ahead or giving us the stink eye).

Pit bulls are supposed to be great family dogs. They are meant to be compliant with humans or the ones who are used for fighting would never make it...they'd be killed if they ever pulled anything toward their handlers.

An acquaintance of mine who has amazing dog handling/training skills and has a pit bull and likes the breed suggested the following resources to me as good ways to learn about pits:

To get an accurate picture of pit bulls, I recommend the following reading:

Hearne, Vicki. Adam's Task chapter titled "Lo, the American Pit Bull Terrier"
Hearne, Vicki. Bandit: Dossier of a Dangerous Dog (read the whole book)

Jessup, Diane: The Working Pit Bull

Visit www.badrap.org

She thinks pit bulls are among the best dogs, but not for everyone. From emailing her, and my reading on the web, I also understand that it is smart to assume that they ALL possess the potential to be dog aggressive or at least enjoy a good brawl. However, with obedience training they should NOT be a threat to society. And aggressiveness toward humans, as I suggested above, is a major FAULT for the breed because it goes against the purpose for which they were bred.

The dilemma, of course, is that too many people who shouldn't own pits (or any dog, period) are drawn to pits for their machismo factor and these same people aren't equipped to either purchase from a reputable breeder, neuter, or train and adequately control their pit bull.

I don't agree that any dog could be used for the same fighting that pit bulls do...pit bulls are used for fighting for a reason. Their tenacity and strength and pain tolerance makes them ideal. I don't care how abusive and mean and aggression inducing a fighting dog owner was...I don't think they'd get nearly as many good fighters out of labs, doodles, golden retrievers, etc. There are dogs (pits included) who have been abused and victims of human-created dog fights and STILL manage to make it through without aggression. And there are dogs who are never abused and have aggression issues.

Rosco has been attacked at the dog park more than once...not once has the attacker been a pit bull. But once it was two goldendoodle siblings. Most of my encounters with pits have been underwhelming. Except once. I blogged about it here. There's NO WAY that incident would have happened had that dog been under the control of a responsible adult who trained it.

Pit bulls scare me because I don't trust the majority of dog owners I run into...and I have heard of local fighting rings, but because I think breed banning carries a lot more slippery slope issues that others mentioned here, I don't think breed bans are a good idea. What I'd LOVE (but isn't realistic) is more of a higher standard/greater requirement for dog licenses. If you're gonna be forced to license your dog...cities should make it MEAN something more than that you paid $5-10. There should be some sort of education to pass or minimal training certificate requirement. Additionally, incentive to EARN off leash privileges or other higher privileges would be cool. And finally greater restrictions on dog and handler if/when the dog disturbs the peace or causes trouble.

[Zoe, Benny and Tyler]

I have to admit that unconsciously I am always a bit more alert when I see a Pitbull approaching one of my boys as where I walk dogs are allowed to run off leash. I know very sweet Pitbulls with responsible owners but the picture of the vicious Pitbull created by the media still is stuck in the back of head. But mostly the dogs are not causing the problems but their irresponsible owners: Getting a pitbull because owning own creates a certain images of being a cool macho, no upfront information about the breeds and its needs, no socialization and training, lack of exercise and so on....
I am originally from Germany and after quite some bite incidents the government also created a list of potentially dangerous dog breeds. The Pitbull is one of them. They are not banned but people who want to buy one of the dog breeds listed they need to fulfil certain requirements to be allowed to walk them without a muzzle and where allowed even off leash. The dog needs to pass regular character tests and the owner needs to proof regularly that the dog is following his commands at all times.The authorities are checking constantly permissions and the risk that the dog is confiscated if you don't have the necessary certificates and that you are not allowed to have animals anymore is high. Therefore you can see slowly a change in owners of Pitbulls. Nowadays people who own Pitbulls are really interested in the breed and want to show their affection for it by the willingness of doing all those tests (which of course are not free of charge!). In the Netherlands where I live now you need to additionally proof that your Pitbull is coming from a breeder listed with a certain organization. The breeders listed there are also inspected regularly and are known for responsible breeding program and careful screening of the potential puppy owners. Even if you live in Germany (neighbor country of the Netherlands) and you want to go on holiday to the Netherlands with your Pitbull you will need that proof of breeder listing, otherwise you cannot bring your dog on holiday.
In Europe the number 1 of bite incidents statistic is held by Golden Retrievers by the way which are known as great family dogs.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This is very interesting. I love that there are strong controls in place for the "potentially dangerous breeds".

[F, Calla & Luca]

Aren't there many more Golden Retrievers, which probably skew the statistics?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Beautifully and eloquently stated, Jane. I wholeheartedly agree.