on chicken and rice.....what next after innova?

[Laura Deutsch]

I've been reading and reading......It seems that Origens is highly recommended. My vet had recommended Innova, after having tons of poops on breeder recommended food. For two weeks, after the changeover, Molly had VERY soft stools and a couple of really loose ones, so vet said chicken and rice for a week plus flagyl then change over....so I'm wondering if anyone knows if Origens is close to Innova, or different enough so that I can anticipate harder, less frequent stools. I think the vets often don't know about many of the foods and are quick to recommend Science Diet ID. Don't want to go there unless a regular food doesn't work. At this point, on only chicken and rice, stools are good....finally. Next visit to vet is Tuesday when we go for 4 month shots, so I'd like to be prepared. 

[Laura Deutsch]

When the breeder sent her home, she was on delta puppy pack and pooping about 7 times a day. Vet told me to switch graduallly to Innova (my other dog has been on that and a combination of Iams Low Residue for years. She's not on that and ID Science Diet and now I read all this stuff!!!)
After the switch was complete. she went less, but stools were consistently too soft with sometimes "pudding", so she's been on c and r since Wednesday. I think I'll switch her to Orijen......there seems to be lots of agreement including one of the people in the vet's office, whose pup is on that after loose stools!!!! It's a worry, for sure.

[Michelle]

I used to work in vet med, but it was many years ago. It was my experience Science Diet was one of the few companies who would offer "nutritional education" to the veterinary community. Therefore, vets often recommend SD because it's what they "know." I find it's not a very high quality food and would agree with you "not to go there." By the way, my puppy is the same age as Molly (4 month check tomorrow) and has had a bout with loose stools lately. I gave her tummy a break with rice and chicken with a little pumpkin (about a tablespoon) for each meal. I gradually added the regular food back and it seems to be working. I'm not sure, but have heard the extra saliva from teething can contribute to some loose stools. Hope you find a solution soon.

[Linda Lynch]

Laura, We had same thing occasionly on Innova but the switch to Orijens has been great for both the doodle and schnauzer. We are doing grain free and it should even help the schnauzer lose a lb or two. Much more regular and no loose stools any longer. You can buy it online as well and save some money. It was delivered in 3 days. We got the meat and the fish flavors so they could get used to more than one. You also feed a bit less than Innova. They like both flavors and no more picky eaters, it's gone soon after they get it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Do everything you can to avoid putting your dog on any Rx food, particularly Science Diet products. They are pure garbage, filled with by-products, industrial waste products, and dangerous chemical preservatives, with astronomical price tags. We have many discussions here in TFG about the lack of nutritional education in veterinary schools, as well as analyses of the horrible ingredients in these Rx foods.
IMO, Orijen is the best commercial food you can buy. However, it is grain-free, and Innova contains grains. Orijen is closer to EVO than to Innova. Most of our dogs who eat Orijen have very firm stools. It has made a world of difference for Jack, and i think you will be very pleased with the results if you try it.
Another good choice would be Acana, which is made by the same company that makes Orijen, Champion Foods. Acana has both grain-free and healthy grain formulas, and their grain-free formulas have slightly less protein than Orijen. Wwe have a few FG members whose dogs have had better results with Acana than with Orijen, and you save a few dollars, too.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's all the info you need to say NO to your vet when he pushes Rx foods:
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/why-you...

And from a discussion about a dog's gastrointestinal problems and the vet's food recommendations, here's an analysis I did of the food the vet recommended versus another widely available commercial food:

You don't really have to be a nutritionist to look at this comparison & see which is the better choice or why the vet prefers the poorer choice:

Royal Canin P & D Rx formula:
Dehydrated potato, duck by-product meal, natural flavors, potato protein, coprah oil, duck, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), soya oil, L-tyrosine, DL-methionine, salt, taurine, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid.
Crude Protein (min)19.00%Crude Fat (min)10.00%
Crude Fiber (max)3.7%
Moisture (max)10.00%

8 lb. $31.39 - 16 lb $59.29 - 32 lb. $106.79

Natural Balance P & D formula:
Potatoes, Duck Meal, Duck, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Crude protein (min.) 21%, crude fat (min.) 10%, crude fiber (max.) 3%, moisture (max.) 10%, calcium (min.) 1%, phosphorus ( min.) 0.9%, omega 3 fatty acids* (min.) 0.5%, omega 6 fatty acids* (min.) 3%

5 lbs $11.59 - 17 lb $29.97 - 30 lb $44.99

(link to above discussion: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/green-mucousy-liquid-stool...)

[Laura Deutsch]

so then which Orijens would you suggest I start her with, as we are going to puppy class in an hour and I'm hoping they sell it at the place we go!!!! Thanks for all of your suggestions, comments and replies.

[Laura Deutsch]

what do you all think about Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Original Ultra formula? A friend of mine has had her dood on it as per the breeder's recommendation.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Natural Balance is intended for dogs who require a limited ingredient low-protein formula. I would not recommend it to you at this point in time.
Unless the breeder has demonstrated some special education or knowledge in canine nutrition, I would take your friend's breeder's recommendation with a grain of salt. If the vets know little about commercial dog foods, the majority of breeders can reasonably be expected to know even less, and that is in no way meant as a criticism of them. Some breeders simply have more knowledge and experience than others. :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Orijen makes a regular puppy formula and a large breed puppy formula. Unless you expect Molly to be over 80 lbs at maturity, I would get the regular puppy formula.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Laura, BTW, what is "Delta puppy pack"? I have never heard of that before.

[Laura Deutsch]

it was Eagle Puppy Pack.