Need Opinions On A Behavior

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Today I went to see an 18-month-old goldendoodle who has been sitting in a boarding/training facility for more than five weeks. He growled and snapped at some children while he was tethered in his home and at a soccer game, and the owner decided she couldn't take a chance on him biting a child, so she left him with the person who trained him when she first got him and has decided not to bring him home. I don't want to get into that too much, I have a specific question about a behavior I saw when I visited him today.

These trainers mainly work with pitbulls and other dogs with aggression issues, and they seem to fashion themselves after Cesar. They are all young and look very tough, with all kinds of piercings, etc. I know their appearance doesn't have anything to do with their training ability, but...when I have tried to talk to them about the dog's issues and how he would do with another dog in a home, I get things like "Well, my pack keeps him in line", and "any dog will try to establish himself as pack leader", that kind of thing.

Anyway, I was very surprised to see a dog who seemed somewhat fearful around the trainer. They let him out of his cage (it really was a cage) and he came right to me, very friendly. He was a big mush with me, kissing, very excited, very affectionate, a little mouthy but nothing at all resembling aggression. I was sitting on the floor with him when the trainer walked in. The dog moved very close to me. Then the trainer held out a prong collar attached to a leash and called the dog to him. The dog half climbed into my lap and peed on my leg...not much, more like submissive urination. I commented that I thought the dog had peed because he was afraid and the trainer and co-worker said, "Oh no, he does that all the time. He just gets excited."

I have talked to the owner twice and the trainer three times, and no one mentioned submissive peeing before. My question is, do you think this was a response to that trainer and the fact that he was trying to put a collar and leash on him, so the dog thinks he is going to have a training session, or do you believe this is just the way the dog is? My gut says these guys have been using some pretty harsh methods on this dog. That dog clearly did not want to go to this guy. Jack is always thrilled when he sees his leash. I know it's hard to tell from this, but if this is just something the dog does, a prospective owner would need to be told that.

I appreciate any thoughts any of you may have on this.

[Leslie and Halas]

I'd go with your gut. I know that we can't generalize about all doodles, but a lot of our DK doods are pretty sensitive and respond better to more positive training. I don't think the same methods that someone might use with a pitbull would work with Halas, and maybe that's true of Mackie, too. So maybe their training methods just aren't right for this guy, and we know his early experiences with his first family weren't good. I'm sure you can give him a great temporary home, and at least figure out what some of his issues are (or aren't).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Update:
I went to get him and took him to my vet...he needs various vetting and will be staying the night at my vet's office. (They have boarding). I will get him tomorrow. There were no trainers around this a.m. when I went to get him, and he was perfectly fine. Much less nervous than yesterday, no peeing and no trembling. (I forgot to mention in my original post that his back legs were trembling when the trainer tried to put the collar on him yesterday.) Today, he was just excited. He got into my car with no problem and rode very nicely in the back seat to the vet's office.
My vet is booked solid and there were quite a few people and dogs in the waiting room. Again, no peeing, no trembling, and no fearful behaviors. And he did not urinate at all from the time they took him out of his cage at the kennel 'til I left him with the vet tech. Just curious and excited. So I think I have my answer.

[Leslie and Halas]

It sounds like he definitely wasn't comfortable in that environment. Now he can get some care, and you can see his true personality.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think you do....poor baby. I'm so hopeful that the report from the Vet will be good and he'll go to a wonderful new home really soon. Thanks so much for going to get him...I was feeling horrible when I got up and read your post this morning.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You and me both. At 6 a.m. I woke up and knew I had to go get him.
Gotta go see a man about a crate, lol.

[Adina P]

OK...now that Karen's got him.  He's NO longer a 'poor  baby' -- He is now a 'Lucky Dood' :)

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

THAT DOOD SCORED THE JACKPOT TODAY!!!!!!!!! You are awesome Karen. It was the trainer for sure IMO. When Peri sees her trainer she cannot contain her excitement and will do ANYTHING she is told to do. She is like a teenage girl fawning over the captain of the football team. So of course, your description and gut feeling sound right on to me.

You must show us a photo of cute guy!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I don't know how lucky he is, he still hasn't met the 83 lb. extremely jealous canine freight train, otherwise known as JD. But I do think his future is looking much brighter, lol.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I saw the picture of Mackie you posted. What a gorgeous dood. I would certainly be very tempted if you guys were any closer. He looks awesome.

[Jamie Petro]

Karen, thank you for rescuing that sweet baby!!!

[Jacque Reynolds]

I am so glad that you are getting this dog out of there! As I read your post I felt certain that this dog has been abused. This "trainer" may have caused the fear issues about children too.
Rehabilitation may take some time and gentleness but this is a Doodle...and Doodles are very sensitive. They do not need or respond well to forceful "training".
I once worked with a respected police dog trainer who temperment tested my dogs and wanted to train one as a service dog. After the temperament testing (I did not agree with the results) she selected a very sensitive puppy, very loving girl...and I tried to convince her that this dog was not the self assured dog that she thought it was, but she insisted that her test showed this girl to be the best in the litter.
I thought she knew what was best...so I let her go. The next day she called to say that this dog is not the dog she tought and she said that I must have switched dogs on her. She wanted to keep her another couple of days to see.
She called later to say that this dog was not working out. I went to pick her up and the poor baby was terrified. She cowered with me, she climbed into a ball in my lap and would not interact with the other dogs or puppies when she was reunited.
Long story short...this trainer had a German Shepherd who "worked with" my puppy to help train her. They kept her caged and who knows what horrible methods they used. I was sick to my stomach.
This was less than a week! This pup was never the same...but, thankfully, she "chose" a lovely family who adored her and she became their princess....but I will never again trust anyone's approach to training that doesn't feel right...and this trainer feels wicked to me.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks to all of you for your feedback; it helps a lot.
Turns out this guy is only 14.5 months old, which makes more sense to me, because he really acts like an overgrown puppy. And he has tapeworms. Or rather, he had tapeworms; I've been assured by the vet that he will be worm-free before I pick him up tomorrow. Looks like he probably also had fleas at some point.
And he has not lived in a home for almost 7 weeks. :(