Dog Training Center - was really rude to me.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

What do you make of this.  I called to get information from a well known dog training center.  The lady has big obedience titles and 30 yrs in business.  So I am asking about putting Rooney into a puppy class, one is underway right now so he'd have to start on 1/4/11. 

 

And as she is telling me the details, she wouldn't let me say anything - just kept right on going.  I'm trying to ask questions but nope.  So when I finally get to speak and I tell her what he can already do, she got very snippy implying that he couldn't possibly do those things and that if he can then this was way over board.  What?  I told her that he stayed for training from his breeder.  What does she think that means.

 

She asked if he "came".  I told her that Roo's breeder doesn't use the word "come" as it sounds like you are mad when you say it.  She taught him to come to her when we say "touch it" and make our hand into a fist and hold the fist down below our knee.  "Touch it" sounds fun to say and yes - he will run and touch his nose to your fist and then sit - cause then he'll get a treat.  Does that sound abusive to you? 

 

Well, needless to say Rooney will NOT be going there for training.  I'm insulted by her attitude.  Rooney isn't perfect but he knows the commands that he was taught.  No harsh corrections or yelling - it was all done with reward to the correct response.

 

If anyone with advanced training knowledge would care to chip in, I'm at a loss at the why she had such a bad reaction.

 

 

[Carol Brand]

I think if you don't like a trainer's style, then it will probably not be a good fit from the the beginning. Outside of that, I'm not really sure what the issue is. What all can Rooney do? Why is it an issue that he can do lots of things? Personally I think most owners don't ask enough of their dogs.

As far as the non-standard training, well the breeder is sort of silly about some things. The word "Come" does not need to sound mad. I personally would not use "Touch" as a recall command because I use "Touch" (targeting) to each other skills later on like the go-out. In the grand scope of things it is really not that big of a deal, although one thing to consider is that if anyone ever needs to call your dog for safety reasons, they will not know the "Touch It" command.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Thanks Carol - I had not thought about the "touch it" command but I'm sure I can slowly switch it to a come by saying "come - touch it" and then doing away with the "touch it" as I go if I need to.
Rooney knows in addition to "touch it" - "place" - he gets on his dog bed, "kennel" - gets into his kennel, "sit" and from a setting position will do a "down" - lie down. He also walks well on a leash without pulling although once in a while he'll go a little bit too fast and get ahead of me so I have to give a correction.
He sits without a verbal command at the site of his collar, leash or dog food dish.
He know that there is no release from any kennel, crate etc., unless all four paws are on the floor and he is quiet. If he jumps up on us we give "off" but this is not effective every time yet. He does not know a stay yet but I hoped to start on that when I take him to his first class someplace. Rooney is smart and we make all of this a game. Plus he is a little on the thinner side and as we play and learn, we gets treats and that helps with his eating. I was just so unhappy with this lady's attitude. I want someone that will help me continue down the road to a well behaved and happy puppy but it won't be her!

[Carol Brand]

I don't know how old Rooney is, but this seems to me like a great start on training! I would just try to find someone else to train under.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Thanks - I will keep looking. Rooney is 11 weeks old today.

[Dreamydoodles Northwest]

11 weeks and he already knows all that?? Wow that is a great start! Who was your breeder?

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

When I started Webber in classes he knew most of the skills Rooney has, so we skipped the intro classes (Family manners) and went to the Super Manners class and then took the Canine Good Citizen class. It sounds like Rooney is beyond the early classes. All his classes, through therapy dog certification, were reward based and he loved them. The trainer is gentle and positive. You may find you will have to adapt to the "standard" names for things if you do group class training. The lady you called sounds like someone that wouldn't be a good fit for you, which would not be pleasant. I say find someone you feel you can take direction from...without the attitude!!

[Donna M Lowry]

I was fortunate to have a trainer come to our home when Riley was 6 mos old. As far as commands, whatever word you chose to use, and use consistently, the dog will recognize as a command. Word + Action = Command
The trainer uses words from many languages to train his own dogs to prove the point. Dogs do not know English, or Spanish, or Italian .. .. .. so the German word "Aushe" is used in place of "Stop" and a French word for sit. Bottom line is consistency is the only thing required along with patience and positive attitude. Training should not be stressful or done in anger. Never stay mad at your pet for more than 4 seconds, even if he's done something very,very naughty. . . .because after that time, he doesn't remember that he did something wrong, he just knows that you are mad.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I am not any kind of advanced trainer but have had some experience WITH trainers and it seems that there are those who have the attitude of "my way or the highway" basically. They are not at all flexible. It sounds like the trainer you spoke with may qualify. :(

I agree that many people (including myself) underestimate their dog's abilities. Tara too had sit, come, down and high five learned within the first week she was home (9 weeks). But many trainers don't teach those commands until after the "puppy socialization classes". Well, by then you have missed a great opportunity! Maybe she is just not used to working with the super intelligent doodles!!!

I too question your trainer's decision not to use the word "come". A word is just a word. The emotional charge any word has is put on it by the person speaking it or the person hearing it. She must have had a bad experience in the past with the word "come". "Come" is used pretty universally in this context as I am sure you know. And as Carol mentioned, I have heard "touch" used in a totally different context for training dogs. If Rooney is ever going to be under someone else's control (daycare, dog walker, staying with friends, etc.) this could become a problem issue. If he is playing with a group of dogs and someone wants ALL the dogs to "come" will they have to use a different word in order to get Rooney to respond? That sort of thing. I think it is worth thinking about...

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

I'm not a training expert by any means, but here is what I have experienced. Cosmo (5.5 months old) has participated in "Puppy Pre-K" (basically just socialization, 3 weekly meetings) from one trainer and "Puppy Kindergarten" (8 weekly meetings) with a second trainer.

Cosmo has learned a lot, but I have learned that the most important part of any puppy training class involves training the _owner_--because you are the one who has to reinforce and practice everything with the puppy every day. I would encourage you to make sure that the trainer you use is one you will be comfortable learning from yourself.

Our first trainer was nice, but seemed a bit inexperienced.

Our second trainer is actually a veterinarian with a specialty in animal behavior. She not only teaches and trains very, very well; she can also give you background and deep understanding of what she does and why. Needless to say, we are signing up for our AKC STAR puppy class with her! We are so glad we found her.

[BG and Gavin]

Our puppy class was run by a worker from the humane society. We did a few exercises like sit, down, off. However, the main focus was socialization with other puppies for the dogs and support for the humans. Also lessons on the importance of exposure (completing an exposure list) and homework/following through and being consistent. We made some nice contacts with other owners whom we met for "play dates" afterwards and were able to talk about specific challenges that people were having relating to potty training, mouthing, fear issues and other puppy things. The very best thing was watching the puppies play. It was just a riot!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think the bottom line is that you really need a trainer who you will feel comfortable with. That's not as easy as it sounds. I had three trainers for Guinness before I found "the one". I'd say get a clear idea of what you want your ultimate training goals to be first. For example, with Guinness my ultimate goal was that he pass his TDI certification because I thought he had a perfect temperament for that and it was something I was interested in doing with him. I needed to find a trainer that we could work with to get us "through the phases" to pass the certification. Once I found someone who could do this and had a proven success record with other dogs going down this same "path", we stayed with her from the puppy class through CGC and then the Therapy Dog prep. When we were in the TDI prep class she "guaranteed" that she would work with us until he passed for the price of the original class....no matter how long that took. It only took that one class, but I really admired her confidence and commitment by providing that "guarantee". With Murphy (at least for now) my ultimate goal is off leash reliability. He's a big, headstrong dog who I need to trust and have confidence in. Will he ever be a Therapy dog...who knows, maybe someday. Right now though I just need to trust him to "behave" in lots of different situations. So, that means a whole different training approach from what I used with Guinness (who never presented any of the challenges I see with Murph). I guess I'm just saying...know your dog and know what you want for your dog...and then find the trainer with proven successes in delivering those things. The trainer should be able to refer you to other clients with dogs who they have trained and are now delivering exactly what you are expecting from your dog.

[Kyoko]

Charlie started Puppy K at 11 weeks or something as well. At that time, she knew sit, down, paw, and to wait to be told "OK" to come out of the crate, etc... So, they can already learn these things at that age. However, now she is in Rally class, I see the difference between back then "Sit" and now "Sit". They are different.... Sort of like it was a baby "Sit", and now more is expected from the simple "Sit". But that is to come later on down the road, if that is the direction you want to go.

I went to the local animal shelter for Puppy K, but since then I searched for a different "Real" dog training school. I agree with majority of people here. If you are not comfortable with the trainer's aproaches or belief, you may not get as much out of the training, simply because it does not fit you. I enjoy working with Charlie's trainer, and I think that is one of the reasons why I am able to be consistent with her classes and training.... I hope you find someone you can trust and like for you and Rooney!! Good luck!!