Obedience Classes?

[Kim]

I really want to train Allie.  I bought 4 Patricia McConnell books.  I like them so far and the things that we have already been doing are seeming to work very easily... it's as if Allie already knew what we wanted! 

We did attend a puppy socialization class 2 years ago and then we started Obedience class but I was a quitter.  I want to try it at a different place.  The thing I did 't like about the Obedience class that we went to was that as we were teaching "heel," Allie didn't want anything to do with it.  She was a VERY big fan of pulling on leash.  The instructor put a choke chain on and Allie screamed and cried with it on.  I don't know if it was really hurting her or if she was being dramatic.  Every time we went to class they got the choke chain out for Allie.  It was as if she was being tortured the way she was screaming.  Some of the obedience classes around here require you to purchase a choke chain.  I don't know if I can put her through that again.  We us a Harness for our walks with Allie and that works perfectly, until we take it off!  She is still a puller.  The only time we don't use it is on our trail hikes... we put her on a flexi leash for that because I feel like that kind of walking should be fun for her.

So, I'm wondering - if I'm following these training books that I'm reading and it's working, will I totally confuse her in taking her to Obedience class?  Should it be one OR the other, or can I do both?  I feel like I would need to do both because honestly I have no idea how to stop Allie from pulling on leash.  The books are doing nothing for me in that department.  What is the consensus on choke chains?  Should I call around and basically interview the Obedience Instructors to see what methods they use? 

I'm new to this but am confident that Allie wants to learn.  She is doing so well already with the training that we have already started.  My confidence in myself is not anywhere near my confidence in her!  But... I am determined.

[Kim]

Soooo... I went to the apdt.com website when you told me about it and contacted an in home trainer in our area. She came over on Sunday and we are now doing our home work. I'm still trying to figure out the best road for us. The in home trainer was very liberal, as is my Husband. I am probably in the middle... No, I don't want to hear Allie screaming because of a choke chain... but I want her to "heel." We had a few issues we needed help dealing with. #1: When the doorbell rings - she goes absolutely NUTS. #2: When someone walks through the door - the absolutely NUTS part gets worse... #3: resource guarding issues with REALLY delicious treats #4: Heeling.

#1 & 2:We have homework for the doorbell and visitors... we are to desensitize her to the doorbell by ringing it about 20 times per day and NOT opening the door for a few days while Allie is "in her spot". Then we are to have the doorbell ring and then go down to pretend to open it to a guest, while Allie is "in her spot." Then we are to invite a guest over, and ask them to turn their back toward Allie if/when she starts jumping. She is reacting less to the door bell.

#3: Our homework for Resource Guarding is to exchange a better treat for the one she has, which we have been doing all along when it's just us. But what if by chance she got something really delicious somewhere and someone else tried to take it away from her?

#4: The Trainer believes that walks should be fun for the dog: says to walk her on our Easy Walk Harness, and allow her to sniff whenever she wants to sniff... She said she does not believe in Heel. My Hubby loves her. I believe that she should know how to heel. When we went for a practice walk with our harness, she walked perfectly according to the Trainer. She says we are pulling the leash and making it tight before Allie is... so I am working on that. We are to keep yummy treats available on our walks and when WE see distractions (this is supposed to happen before Allie sees them) we are supposed to dangle the treat above her nose. This did work on our walk yesterday when 3 little kids were RUNNING and screaming in the road.

I have decided that I will be taking her to Obedience Classes and I'm hoping we can learn to heel! All in all the trainer said that Allie is an obedient dog for the most part... we just have a few things to work on.

Thank you for the info, and sorry this is so long!

[Carol Brand]

She doesn't believe in heel? Snort. Well I don't really believe in the value of an ADPT certification (eye roll).

Here is the thing. "Heel" is a specific Obedience exercise that requires extreme focus and concentration from a dog. Tue heel has VERY specific requirements (in step with handler... looking up at handler.. ear parallel with handler's leg at all times). It has practical, real world applications, but it is not something that you would ask a dog to do over the course of an entire walk. Do you want to teach Heel or do you want loose leash walking?

As far as Allie's behavior on walks, my philosophy is that on a walk, a dog is working for me. Walks are not their time; they are my time. I expect my dogs to be keeping an eye on me while we are walking so they can anticipate changes in direction or speed or so that they can be ready to take direction from me. Because my dogs have been trained this way, they do not:

1. Pull on leash.
2. Lunge after squirrels.
3. Bark at other dogs.
4. Lunge at joggers or cyclists etc

I think if you go with the idea that walks are a fun time for dogs then you have to expect that dogs will please themselves and do what interests them like barking, lunging, pulling etc. So.... what do you want your walks to look like. You can't have it both ways.

[Adina P]

And remember... Walking politely on leash is not NOT fun!  If it was horrible and boring.. Then my dogs would run when their leash came out.  Instead they are super excited and can hardly wait!  Even though Rosco, for now, is the only one that gets to go on non-training walks...even when he was ONLY getting training walks he would be very excited about the chance to get out.

[Kim]

Carol - when you say "but it is not something that you would ask a dog to do over the course of an entire walk." How long should she be heeling on our walks?

[Carol Brand]

Real heeling? Well I guess I would ask for this for no more than a minute or two. On walks, I mostly use it to get out of sticky situations like when we are on the sidewalk passing an out of control dog. I need my dog right next to me, looking at me (not at the other dog) and matching my pace.

What we usually do on walks is loose leash walking. I expect my dogs to stay within a certain distance. They can be a "head and shoulders" in front or behind me but they may not take up the slack in the leash. This requires far less concentration and effort than true heeling.

It is sort of like dressage if you know horses at all. You would expect your horse to be a good citizen on the trail, but you would not expect it to perform passage the whole way up the mountain.

When teaching true heeling. We teach it a couple of steps at a time. We ask for and hopefully get three steps with head up, looking at us with body straight and ear in line with our thigh. PARTY! The we stretch this out to 6 then 9 steps. PARTY! Then we put in a turn (hard to keep the dog from lagging). Then a stop with an auto-sit (straight!). Then a change of pace.

Teaching true heeling is a long, slow, time consuming process.

[Adina P]

Carol: Is it actually part of AKC Obedience (POINTS) for the dog to be looking UP at you the entire time or is that more for flair? Do judges dock points for a dog that looks straight ahead or only occasionally looks up at you? My understanding is that it wasn't an actual point issue type of requirement, only a preference.

[Carol Brand]

It is not a scoring issue. That successful Beagle I've mentioned before looks forward when she heels and she is a very precise heeling dog.

However,when a dog is looking up at you, they ARE by definition focused on you. When they are looking around, they have often lost focus and are thinking about something else. Certainly when you stop, it is important for a dog to be looking up at you to see if you are going to tell it to do something.

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[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

It sounds like you're not "completely sold" on this trainer, so I think it's great that you're going to try taking her to Obedience Class. I'd worry a little too about her guidance on the resource guarding....what happens if you don't have a "more valuable" treat with you, and Allie is Resource Guarding something that you need to take away from her. As for the "heeling', I agree with Carol.....it's all dependent on what you want your walks to be like. Here's hoping that your plan with the doorbell works. Let us know, because there are lots of who are still working on this with our Doodles. Thanks for the update!

[Kim]

I'm not completely sold on it - and it was/will be a one or two time thing. For our walks, I want them to be obedient walks. I want them to be for me as well as for her... if I am stopping every few steps for her to liberally sniff potential fox poop, these walks are doing nothing for me.

The next sign ups for obedience class are in December - I will be there!

I will keep you updated on the doorbell. Right now she seems to be doing good... We will see what happens when there is an actual visitor there!