Wanting to buy my first Doodle.

[Shelley Johnson]

I really am excited to own my first Doodle. 

I was told when buying one that the Stud should be the Poodle.  That way your puppy will not shed.  Is this true?

Can someone also explain to me what the abbrevations mean when they say F1 or F2?

When buying a puppy how can you tell if the face will be more square faced compared to a fox face?

I also see that the pricing for GoldenDoodle vary.  Can someone give me advise and what to be aware of. 

My husband is curious is this breed any good at hunting birds?

I look forward to hearing back from all you Doodle lovers.

 

Shelley

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm wondering where you heard that if the stud is the poodle, the puppies will not shed. That is absolutely untrue and makes no sense genetically. It's exactly the same as saying that all of your children will inherit their father's hair. Genetically, it makes no difference which parent contributes which genes. I would stay away from any breeder who told you that, they obviously don't know what they're talking about and have a poor grasp of genetics...not a good thing in someone who is breeding dogs.

Nobody can guarantee you a non-shedding doodle, and if someone tells you they can, run far away from that dishonest breeder.

An F1 is a first generation cross: a purebred poodle bred to a purebred retriever. An F1B is an F1 bred back to a poodle. This combination gives you the best shot at getting a non-shedding coat. I'll leave the F2, etc., to others to explain.

There is no way to tell that any given mixed-breed  puppy is going to be a good bird dog. If that's important to your husband, he should probably consider purebreds from hunting lines.

Here is the most important information you could have to help you choose a breeder:

What to Look for in a Breeder

I can't stress enough how important the information in this article is.

Good luck in your search.

[Shelley Johnson]

Thank you so much for your help!

I loved the article and printed it out and put it in my file.

 

This website is so encouraging!

Sincerely,

Shelley

[Adina P]

Hi Shelley and welcome to DK!

I'm glad you're asking these questions before buying your doodle because there are lots of myths out there!  Because doodles are a mix of two breeds (just like your kids are a mix of the genes of two different parents) there's no way to guarantee the looks or precise personality of a litter of puppies.  They will vary between the parents and whatever genetic history they have.

 

1) There is NO way to guarantee non-shedding and it does not matter whether the stud is the poodle or the golden retriever. 

 

2) F1 means First generation meaning it is the first cross between two separate breeds.  An F1 dog has half its genetic material from the poodle and half from the retriever.  But that doesn't mean that F1's all look like a 50/50 mix.  It's not like mixing paint and each puppy can vary just like your kids are not all exactly the same.

 

F2 can mean either the result of mixing two F1 doodles (rarely done because the variation is even greater) or it can mean F1b.  F1b is really the most common second generation. An F1b means that an F1 was bred back to a parent breed.  In the case of doodles this usually means an F1 bred to a poodle so statistically the puppies are 3/4 poodle and 1/4 retriever.  However, any individual pup can still have more of some parent and less of another and not always 3/4 poodle in reality.

 

3) Usually the extremes in face shape are obvious. The pointier poodle face will look pointier in a pup and a blockier head will look blockier in a pup.  But really if you've got a really furry pup you won't be able to tell anyway.

 

4) Goldendoodles and Labradoodles COULD be good at hunting birds.  But remember they are not a 'true' breed because they are a mix--so no blanket statements can be made.  So I guess if both parents were from strong hunting lines than perhaps many of the puppies could have strong hunting potential...but just any old lab and poodle or golden and poodle may not necessarily make good hunting puppies. It depends on the parents and how the genes get selected. By your profile photo it looks like you have a few children.  So the best analogy is look at your kids. Some are more like their father, some more like you, and some a good mix of both...but there was no way to predict (before they were born) which would be more like which parent.  It depends on how the genes fall.

 

5) Prices DO vary.  While a high price doesn't guarantee a quality breeding. A very low price almost always means the dog is from a backyard breeder.  Typical F1 prices are $1200-1500 with a few good breeders charging slightly less. 
Here is a VERY important page for you to read about finding a good breeder: http://www.doodlekisses.com/notes/What_To_Look_for_In_a_Breeder

 

And here is a very important discussion about checking to see if you are really ready for a doodle: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/are-you-ready-for-a-doodle

[Shelley Johnson]

Holy Cow, you are full of knowledge and I love it.

 

You were a big help with understanding the mix of gene's and the look I am looking for in a pup.

Thanks again.

Shelley

[F, Calla & Luca]

I could be wrong but I don't think An F1b is an F2. To be an F2 you'd need to ave an F1x F1 mating, or an F1 xF1b or F1bxF1b. The ALAA has classified F1bs as second generation labradoodles but they are really not F2.  It gets very confusing.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I think you are right F!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think a lot of BYBs who aren't very well-informed use the term F2 when advertising F1Bs for sale. Or they are actually breeding two F1s together, which I believe is not considered to be the smartest thing to do if you're trying to produce non-shedding coats.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Here's what the ALAA says "In addition, a breeder or owner may use a pedigree to describe the dog with the following grading scheme descriptors: First Generation Labradoodle (Labrador Retriever bred to Poodle), Second Generation Labradoodle (First Generation bred to Poodle) or Third Generation Labradoodle (Second Generation to Second Generation) and so on." But that doesn't make it right, that is an F2.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Karen and Adina have covered all your questions, so all I will add is good luck on your search. I have two Labradoodles....very different in looks and personality, but they compliment each other nicely. Fudge is an F1B Chocolate Labradoodle and Vern is a F3 Cream Labradoodle.

 

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Shelley, welcome to DK!  Do some research on here and read the suggested links.  As far as hunting, I am sure that would have to be trained early on.  My Peri is the best retriever on earth and even points at birds; however, she has the jaws of a shark.  She does not have a "soft mouth" that is required to be a bird dog. Not sure how much that is trained vs. innate.

[Shelby and Kev]

Heres my Example;

 

Shelbys father is a large, white Standard Poodle

     The  mother a standard Golden Retriever

Shelby had the long muzzle like her father [Poodle] the siblings had shorter muzzles like the mother [Golden]

F1 is a cross between two purebred parents

F2 is a Doodle backcrossed with either a Pure Golden or Pure Poodle. 

Anyone can set price and for example; My parents bred Goldens, Poodles, Doodles and they made sure they went to a good home. Everyone has money but not everyone has a good home for a Doodle.   Retrievers were bred to hunt!! and yes

[F, Calla & Luca]

No the second example is an F1B