UPDATE: Need some advice - 6 months of diarrhea in 9 month old puppy....IBS, IBD, Collitis, Allergy???

[Rory]

UPDATE: So, it has been only six days, but I am pleased to report that everything is looking normal!! Maybe it is still too early to tell for sure, but last time I took her off the meds, it only took a couple of days before the diarrhea returned. I am cautiously optimistic. Thanks for all your support, everyone!

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

So the diarrhea started about 5 or 6 months ago after a bout of gastroenteritis - Tylane has been keeping it at bay, but her stools are still on the (sometimes very) soft side.

 

A specialist suggested doing 4 rounds of panacur, even though nothing showed in the stool sample, and we are on round 3. My vet also wants to start with a prescription diet (I said no) and if that didn't work, then a scope and biopsy (I also said no). I have just started her on enzymes and probiotics.

 

I keep reading that food allergies don't manifest with gastro symptoms, and while I don't want to use a rx diet, I am tempted to change her to a healthy grain, single source protein food. She did really well, in terms of her bowels, when her food was high, healthy grain, but she also barely ate at all!!!! She is super picky, and the only food I have found that she is willing to eat is EVO. I have a feeling that this is due to the very small size of the kibble (small bites), because she doesn't really chew her food. Does anyone know of a good quality, healthy grain food that also comes in very small sized kibble??? The main reason I like EVO as well is because it has a very high calorie:volume ratio. My Yetti will not, WILL NOT consume more than 2, maybe maybe 2.5 cups of food a day, and I want to make sure she gets all her nutrients. She is 9 months and ~ 50 lbs.

 

If anyone has any food suggestions, or other ideas about what this could be, I would really appreciate it!!!

 

Thanks,

 

Rory

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We've dealt with a lot of this in The Food Group, and there are a lot of suggestions on foods there as well. Our recommended foods list may be a place to start.

EVO is a grain-free food, not a healthy grain food. It contains no cereal grains at all. That's what I personally would stay with. Grain-free diets have helped a lot of dogs with GI problems. If you want a single protein source, look at Natural Balance or Wellness Simple Solutions formulas. There are a handful of single-protein-source and rice diets out there if you look through our recommended foods list.

A food intolerance (different from an allergy) can be the cause of these kinds of problems, but I'm finding out that even that is rarer than most people think. More and more, I'm reading that in many of these cases, there seems to be a problem with the dog's digestive health itself, and not with any specific food. Jane (Guinness and Murphy) has posted a discussion in the Health & medical Group about her vet visit yesterday for Murphy's GI problems, which may be of interest to you.

[Rory]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know EVO is grain-free - I would prefer to stay grain-free, but in the past she has done better with grains in her diet, that is why I am considering switching. I might go pick up a sample of Wellness and see if she takes to it.

 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Which food was it that she was doing well with before?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree, Karen.  I spent a long time yesterday talking to my Vet about these issues and reading literature that she sent me home with.  She said there are a lot of people who are just jumping from one food to another without ever determining the true source of the gastrointestinal problem.  Often the new food will seem to help for a little while, and the the diarrhea or soft stool issue returns.  That's because the underlying cause was not determined.  My first question is "did she do a fecal cytology?".  For my vet if the dog is otherwise healthy (no chronic vomiting or indication of lethargy or pain), a biopsy or scope are very last resorts.  Murphy's cytology yesterday showed that his intestinal microflora was completely out of balance and he was loaded with harmful bacteria.  As a result, the sample also showed white and red blood cells, as his body was attempting to "attack" this harmful bacteria.  So right now we're working on identifying the cause of this imbalance, and he's on several different medications.  If all other causes are addressed and the clinical symptoms persist, we'll go down the dietary path.  I think the pancur is a good approach to rule out parasites that don't show up in the fecal (although four rounds seems extreme).  What about antibacterial meds or broad spectrum probiotics?  I think they would also be worth a try.  Bottom line, I'd ask about the cytology.  With Guinness (my other Doodle with IBD), the intestinal microflora balance was okay, but he had an intolerance to every dog food we tried.  His treatment is completely dietary, and he's on a home cooked diet (with a small amount of Acana).  I understand how difficult and frustrating this all is.  Good luck getting to the bottom of it.

[Lynn D.]

I could have written this post myself! I should have just gone back to the Iams Smart Puppy the breeder had him on. Instead I went through (in order) Wellness Super Puppy, California Natural, tried to get him back on the Wellness, and Acana. None of them, IMO, have worked well at all. My Echo still has wet/unformed stools. And now that he is working on the Acana (Salmon) he smells. With the Wellness I also had to wash him weekly. But he was smelly at day 4-5. Echo is a picky eater as well, nothing but my "cooking" for him (Chicken, Pumpkin, Applesauce, Banana and whole grain brown rice) makes him want to eat. The vet says he is under weight, but not not by a lot. Echo is 7.5 months and 43#. BTW, he never acts like he is sick or NFW.

[Adina P]

This is a question for Karen: Given that some dogs SEEM to do well on some of the 'poor quality' foods... do you think there might be a place for a food that is similar but made by a company with reputable sources of ingredients?  Aside from the rancid fats and potentially harmful additives... let's say a company that had a good source of corn and was nutritionally about the same...any use for such a food?  I mean if you could take Science Diet or Iams Smart Puppy (as Lynn's dog apparently did fine on) and take out the harmful additives/fats replacing with good ones and make sure the sources of the corn or whatever grain were reputable...what would be the issue there?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There might not be an issue there. But I think it's significant that no such food exists. There is no food made by a company that's even slightly trustworthy, even the ones like Evanger's, Eagle, or Nature's Variety which we are watching in terms of quality and recall issues, that uses corn, wheat, by-products etc in any of their formulas.

Corn as an ingredient in dog food seems to go hand and hand with other really cheap, poor quality ingredients like brewer's rice and by-products in the foods produced by the Big Dog Food companies that also use third party ingredient sources. I don't know if there is any reason for that besides the fact that the higher end companies know that the people who are willing to purchase their products don't want corn in them, lol, but I have to think there's more to it than that.

[Rory]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The food she was doing well on before was CaniSource - but I wasn't thrilled with the ingredient list. http://www.canisource.ca/

 

I migh try it again, though, see how it goes.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The website didn't have an exact ingredient list (or I didn't see it) but based on what i did see, there don't seem to be any ingredients in the food that would concern me. What about the ingredients did you dislike?

[Rory]

Just the white rice! I was all about whole grains, or better, grain free. They also don't specify what sort of herbs are added.

 

Here is the info:

 

 

Ingredients: Fresh beef, white rice, whole barley, rolled oats, fresh apples, fresh carrots,  fresh eggs, ground flax seeds, herbs mix, garlic, vitamins & minerals (calcium, phosphorous, sodium, chloride, magnesium, copper, manganese, zinc, iodine, selenium, vitamin E, riboflavin, pantothenic acid, pyridoxin,  folic acid, choline)

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein	27% min
Crude Fat	16% min
Crude Fibre	3% max
Moisture	8% max
Ash	2% max
Calcium	1.8%
Phosphorus	1.2%
Omega 6	2%
Omega 3	.6%
Vitamin A	24 kIU/kg
Vitamin E	250 IU/kg

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

One advantage to white rice over whole grain is that it's known to be binding; that's probably what contributed to your dog's firm stools while on this food.

Assuming the company is reliable, I have to say this looks like a very good food; excellent protein content for a food that contains grains, quality ingredients, and the Omega 6/3 ratio is one of the best I've seen. If it were me, I'd forget about the whole grain issue and stay with this food.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Why don't the manufacturers list the % carbohydrate in the foods?