Puzzled - Difference in breeding LD's & GD's??

[Jennifer Tramell]

I read something that Adina posted and now I am puzzled.  She posted in response to someone looking for a LD puppy that most breeders aren't breeding first gen LD's anymore.  Are they breeding F2's, multi-gens, or are they backcrossing so they are f1b's, f2b's, etc. 

The reason I'm puzzled is that it seems that GD breeders are still focusing on  breeding F1's or backcrosses.  I know the "marble lesson" on genetics but it seems like we've gotten the breeds we have through years of selective breeding.  I would think that breeders would take low/non shedding F1s and breed them to other low/non shedding f1s to get a higher percentage of low/non shedding f2s.  Then take the low/non shedding F2s and breed them, etc.  Is this what LD breeders are doing?

Is there a difference between how LD breeders and GD breeders are breeding?  If so, then why?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can't speak to what breeders are doing now, but I can answer a couple of your questions. F1 GDs tend to have longer, heavier, wavier coats than F1 LDs, because the Golden Retrievers have long wavy hair, as opposed to Labrador Retrievers, which have very short flat coats. So you rarely see an F1 GD with the kind of very flat, retrieverish coat that you sometimes see in F1 LDs. That may be the reason some breeders are moving toward higher generations of LDs, but still breed F1 GDs.

Breeding an F1 to another F1, no matter how low/non-shedding the parent dogs may be, is not usually recommended. In that case, there is really no difference genetically from breeding a purebred lab to a purebred poodle: half the genes on each side are retriever genes, and you can get a dog who is genetically mostly retriever, i.e., not very doodle-y at all, if the retriever coats are inherited from each parent. (This is greatly simplified, but it gives an idea). Whereas if you breed an F1 to a purebred poodle, you have only poodle genes on one side, i.e. non-shedding, and the chances of getting a non-shedding coat in the puppies are much higher.

[Adina P]

Yes to what Karen said.  The reason I know that there are not many breeders breeding F1 is because the F1 labradoodle is my personal favorite.  So before we found Boca in rescue I was seriously researching F1 breeders.  There are FEW and far between -- at least that's the case if you want to avoid BYB's and want health tested parents, etc.  The breeder I almost got a pup from is the only F1 LD breeder within a day's driving distance of me.  I also considered an F1b litter two states away because quite often there are a couple pups in an F1b litter that resemble the F1 LD I like.  But overall a good F1 LD breeder is hard to find.  Even the breeder in my state that I considered only has one more litter coming up from her lab and I have no idea if she plans on purchasing another lab.  She seems to be moving into F1bs and higher generation litters.

 

For one thing, I think it's harder to sell F1 LD's because most will still shed and most of the appeal of the doodles is the 'non-shedding' or 'low-shedding'.  Since few to no doodle breeders are breeding as a philanthropic venture (which is fine with me) it behooves them to breed the type of doodle that they can actually sell/find homes for. 

 

At the same time I do wonder who will supply the F1's of the future to continue adding new lines and keep things from going stale in the labradoodle world.

 

So yes while THIS is happening with labradoodles...only a few breeders are breeding higher generation goldendoodles. Mostly for the reasons Karen said I think.  You're more likely to get a long haired doodley dog with a goldendoodle (though I'm not sure if shedding is truly less...it appears that fewer GD owners complain about shedding).

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I agree - Peri, my F1 gd, doesn't shed at all. Infact, none of her littermates do either.  Our breeder told me she thought Peri might because she wasn't as curly as a pup. I went into it knowing that there was a huge possibility she would shed.  She doesn't and the others do not either.  6 F1s!

[Becky & Sheeba]

I have a F1B Labradoodle and she has a wool coat. I take her to the groomers every 2-3 wks to help maintain her coat and to keep it from matting. During the spring & summer months I have her clipped short to keep the grass burs from digging into her coat. Her coat can grow out quite long if I let it, which I did last winter. Even though her coat is high maintenance, I love the fact that she doesn't shed.