Constant loose stools! Help!

[Joy & Buddy]

Forgive me for starting another thread on this topic.  I've read through a lot of the other threads--for hours!--but many of the discussions are over a year old and I wasn't sure if they are still active. Buddy is on Acana and has had loose stools for several months now.  Currently he is on the grain-free Pacifica formula (he's been on grain-free since he was about 8 months old--he's 2 now).  I was trying to switch between the formulas every couple months to give him variety but went back to Pacifica because he tends to like fish protein. Sometimes for days at a time, he seems uninterested in his food, and will skip meals or only eat some of it, which is another reason I went back to the fish.  (He's interested at first, then seems to get bored with it, although food/treats are a big motivator for him.) I was also giving him salmon oil for his coat, which tends to be dry, and because he seemed more interested in the food with it, but I cut that out to see if it was contributing to his stool problem.  Not a really noticeable difference, although maybe a little.  I've had his stool checked for parasites, and it was not positive, although we've only had it checked once (I know you have to catch the parasite when it is not dormant). I'm hesitant to take him to the vet, who is great, but his office has never heard of Acana and I think he will just give me medication to treat the symptom.

Buddy loves raw zucchini, carrots, etc, but I am hesitant to use them as treats, and I have stopped giving him other treats, or at least using them only occasionally (dried sweet potato; jerky treats with not grains, etc).  Also have used pumpkin but after a few days, he avoids it.   Should I use yogurt?

I was so happy to finally have Acana in our area, and I would love to keep him on it!  He was on TOTW previously (switched to Acana last September) and did okay on it, but I think Acana and Orijen are better foods and I am concerned about Diamond's history.

Any thoughts?  Any help would be appreciated!  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

What else does Buddy get to eat in the way of treats, etc?

[Joy & Buddy]

Mostly he doesn't get anything else these days, but when he does: Veggie Life Vitality (Sweet Potato, flaxseed, vitamin E, Vit A); Real Meat Chicken & Venison Jerkey Treats (Chicken, venison, dried chicory root, veg glycerin, organic sea salt, mixed tocopherols, and yikes! organic garlic).  I'll definitely stop the jerky altogether now!  He did seem to have even looser stools when I gave him the sweet potato treat so I rarely give them now.  Occasionally other people give him stuff before I can stop them, ie, at the groomers, but not often.  I think the loose stools may predate these particular treats, but I am not exactly sure, since it has been going on so long.  And I chose the sweet potato to help his coat and give him something he loves!

Thanks for answering so swiftly, Karen!

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

We switched Gracie Doodle to Acana because she has always been indifferent to her food. She is not a food motivated dog either. We've always kept her treats to a minimum. She would only get the chicken jerky treats which turned out to be our biggest problem with the loose stools. We have since done away from basically all treats except fior the freeze dried liver for training. Gracie was getting 11/2 a cup of Acana twice a day which totaled 3cups of food. We now have reduced her by 1/2 a cup less of kibble at each meal and added1/2 a cup of cut green beans. We buy the frozen and warm them in the microwave (she doesn't seem to like them frozen). She goes nuts for her foo now! She asks to be fed too. The poops are perfect. She has lost weight which she needed to do and the best of all, because of the hard stool she no longer gets anal sac problems.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I had a foster who also did well with reducing the amount of kibble and adding 1/2 cup of green beans to his meals. We used the sodium free canned green beans, very easy, no heating involved and he seemed to love them. His poop was perfectly formed every time.

Cooked vegetables will add fiber without contributing to the loose stool problem, much more so than raw veggies. Canned pumpkin is cooked, as well as the canned green beans. You might try giving him cooked carrots, zucchini, sweet potatoes, etc. instead of raw.

I would also look into purchasing some digestive enzymes/probiotics from a higher-end pet supply store, the boutique kind. I got some capsules called Gentle Digest when JD was having a problem from antibiotics, and they worked very well.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I can only add that none of my dogs has ever tolerated fish oil.  Loose stools every time.  They have no problem with Evening Primrose oil though. If they have very many treats of any sort, they will also have problems.

[Rory]

I was dealing with loose stools/colitis for the first 9 months or so of my dog's life (she just turned 1). I switched to a different food with grains, and started her on probiotics and digestive enzymes (human-grade), and things got much better. After a couple of months of improvement, I recently started experimenting with new foods. Over the past month or so of trying different brands (always in small quantities, mixed with her old kibble) I have realized that she is fine with any food that has less than ~26% protein - anything more, and the loose stools come back. Her reaction to Acana was particularly bad. I had her on Orijen Puppy and then Evo when she was younger, which I am now convinced was the major source of her diarrhea. Some dogs just can't handle the higher protein count. This is all to say that it might be worth trying a lower protein food, and see what happens.

[Joy & Buddy]

Thanks, everyone.  Tonight I gave Buddy canned, unsalted green beans with his Acana Pacifica kibble.  He was very happy to have the green beans!  He's been off salmon oil for over a week, and I took away all the treats today, too. (I did try EPO about a year ago and he got loose stools with that, too.)  So I will see how he does with the beans.  I'll check out probiotics and digestive enzymes, too.  

I took Buddy off grains over a year ago, because he seemed not to be able to tolerate food with grains (loose stools then, too); at the time, I thought it was perhaps chicken, as well.  I did try the Acana formula with chicken a few months ago, and he seemed okay on it (of course, I'm not exactly sure, now, whether the loose stools started toward the end of that food--he seemed to lose interest in that flavor). What kind of food with grains does your dog do well on? 

Re: lower protein: the TOTW is lower than Acana (31-33% Acana; 26% TOTW) and I've watched protein count from the beginning, for growth issues.  I was hoping that now that he is 2, I could ease up on that!    And, what is the final word on TOTW?  Do we know where they source their ocean fish meal?  I think they stopped using ethoxyquin last summer.

[Rory]

My dog seems to be fine with all sorts of grains, but I prefer low glycemic whole grains like oats and barley (for myself, as well as my dog). She seems to be doing well on Petcurean Go! Natural Duck, which is a limited ingredient food with duck and oats, some potato and a couple of other ancient grains likes Kamut.  She also was doing well on Wellness Simple Solutions Duck and Rice, but I found the ingredients to be a little too limited for the long term. But, Wellness might be a short-term option for you right now, if you want to try an elimination diet, since it is a single protein, single carb food. If your pup is fine on it, you can slowly introduce new foods to see what triggers the problems.

 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

TOTW has eliminated ethoxyquin-preserved fish meal from their products, which is one reason we recommend them.

It would be extremely unlikely that a food allergy would manifest with loose stools as the only symptom. I would strongly urge you not to put yourself and your dog through a food elimination trial. It's possible you are dealing with a food intolerance, but even that seems unlikely, as the symptoms you're describing are nowhere near what those whose dogs have been diagnosed with IBS are experiencing.

It's also unusual that higher protein diets would cause loose stools. In fact, many people here have found that switching their dogs to a grain-free, high protein diet like Orijen has solved the loose stool problem. (In fact, some people find that Orijen makes their dogs' stool too firm..."cement butt" is one term I've heard used, lol.) Jackdoodle gets loose stools from foods that conatin grains, it seems to be too much filler and bulk for him to handle. Fiber and fats are related to stool volume and consistency, not protein. It is possible that your dog's digestive system has trouble with certain proteins, but that can becaused by the proteins in grains, too.

The limited ingredient formulas Rory mentioned might be a good choice to see if it's simply a problem with tolerance to certain proteins. But lower protein diets are not ideal for most dogs, in the opinion of many nutritionists.

[Joy & Buddy]

I've switched foods several times with Buddy: he's been on Wellness (puppy), Innova (puppy), TOTW, a brief stint with Orijen (loose stools), and finally, Acana.  (My original plan was to use Acana until he was over 2, then possibly switch to Orijen.) He developed loose stools with the Innova Puppy after being on it for several months, and that's when we switched to grain-free.  

So, for now I guess I am going to keep him on this food and try the green beans/probiotics route to see if it works.  My sense is that he doesn't do well with grains or chicken, but perhaps that was just when he was younger.  I feel a kind of commitment to a grain-free diet, just because it makes sense to me, although I realize my ideal and what works for Buddy may not be the same thing!  

Still trying to decide if a visit to the vet is in order.  Buddy's been "scooting" which I think is probably because of the loose stools, too.  I don't think he has IBS or an allergy, really, and I don't just want to use medication to firm up his stools; that seems like just treating the symptom and then it will start again once the medication is over.

Thanks for all the help!  I wish this were simpler!!  

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I agree you should eliminate the jerkies - Peri always gets loose stools with those.

For our situation, Peri started on TOTW but always had loose stools.  I don't think a grain-free diet was the answer for her. She has been eating Fromm for 1.5 years now and that worked better in her case.

Like you say, it is different for all dogs.  They all have different needs.

[Rory]

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that it is a food allergy, but since her dog is clearly showing clinical signs of gastrointestinal distress, something is going on. I personally would (and did) try other remedies first, but I would also try a limited ingredient diet if all else failed. This doesn't have to be grain-based if you are committed to grain-free food, there are potato and sweet potato versions out there.

 

When I was dealing with chronic loose stools, I spoke with a holistic vet who is very involved in research and also teaches at a well-known vet school. She is a raw feeder herself, and generally prefers higher protein foods for most dogs. Her first kibble of choice is actually Orijen, because of its high digestibility and quality ingredients. She is by no means anti-high protein. But, she also mentioned that in her practice, she has noticed that poodles and poodle mixes often have trouble with the higher protein foods (>30%). She is not sure why this might be, and she stressed that it is just anecdotal, but she was the one who suggested to me the enzymes, probiotics and lower protein food. Nutritionists (and vets, if they educate themselves about these matters) make recommendations on the best available data, but the best research on canine nutrition is not particularly good.

 

I guess my point is, if green beans, pumpkin, etc. doesn't do the trick, and you are sure there are no parasites, the next option would be, for me, a limited ingredient diet. If loose stools still persist after that (and I assume we are talking about unformed stools, not just loose-ish) then a trip to the vet is warranted IMO.