Getting frustrated... canola ? & orijen ?

[Tracey Birling]

Well, I'm starting to get a little desperate :(  Cooper is just plain turning away his food! Yesterday he ate only 1 cup of food all day, and according to the bag (American Nat. Premium original) he should be eating 4 to 5 cups/day for his age and weight. I know it was recommended that I give him at least a month on his current food because he is so young - but I do want to make sure he's getting what he needs! I have a few thoughts...

 

1. Since he's such a finicky eater - wondering if feeding him a more nutrient dense food would benefit him. I have a girlfriend who this didn't work well for her dog because he LOVED to eat, and only feeding her dog a couple of cups a day (even though higher in calories) just didn't satisfy him. Cooper just has never seemed to "relish" in the act of eating, so I'm thinking that he might do better on a higher calorie food where I don't need to feed him as much. (However maybe if I found a food that he loves he would enjoy eating :)

 

2. Thank you so much Karen for getting into omega ratios. I have been researching foods and read some articles about this. I was thinking about Fromm or TOTW. (I'd prefer Fromm, but I do have to drive over 30 minutes to get this food, whereas TOTW is 2 mins from my house). But after looking at calories and omega ratios, neither of these foods look that great to me. I guess I'm wondering what all of the hype about TOTW is? (No offense to anyone who uses this!) I guess because it's a lower cost grain free - that's a good thing. But the omega ratios weren't that great (I think the wetlands was the only one that was less than an 8:1). I also noticed that totw uses canola oil. I've read that this is a controversial ingredient. Is this true? Shoudl I be worried about canola oil? I'm guessing that salmon or fish oil would be a better source of Omega 3's.... but just wondering... The Fromm's looked good - but again the Omega ratios were in the 5s & 6's. They ingredients seeemed a little better than the totw in my opinion.

 

3. I was looking at Orijen as well. I see that it's sold about 30 minutes from my house as well. If I'm not going out on a weekly basis to purchase food - this is not a big deal. The cal's and omega ratio's (and ingredients) obviously look to superior to anything else I've seen. And so does the price tag as I'm sure everyone is well aware :) I'm trying to figure out what it would cost to feed this food to my dog/month. For those of you who feed Orijen as an adult - how often do you end up purchasing a bag? Do you switch formulas or stay w/ the same one? I know it depends on what size bag you are purchasing. Just trying to get an estimate here. (To justify cost to my dear husband)!

 

Thanks so much everyone! Sorry if I've repeated questions that have already been answered in the past.

Tracey

[KC]

Jumping in a little late. We feed Milo Acana, which is made by the same company as Orijen, and is a little less expensive. Milo too has never been an enthusiastic eater, but an accidental discovery made a few days ago has me surprised. One, we changed from Acana Grasslands to Acana Pacifica, and he has been enthusiastic about the change. Two, I got some freeze dried raw lamb patties (Stella and Chewy's, about $22 for 25 patties) and found that if I cut them in half, and just crumble them in with the kibble, Milo acts like I do when someone puts a cheesecake in front of me. (If you imagine barely coherent and drooling with fork in hand, yeah, that's about right). I am thinking that I am more than willing to pay about $10 dollars extra a month for this kind of enthusiasm, and not having a bowl of dog food left uneaten for hours.

On a side note, we feed him about 2 cups of Acana, about half what the bag recommends. I figure like the toothpaste ads, with the swirl of toothpaste on the brush, manufacturers recommend way more than you really need.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Champion's feeding guidelines are pretty much dead-on, although there is a lot of leeway in the recommend amounts, depending on how active your dog is. But many companies do overstate the amount of food needed. It's always better to err on the side of less when in doubt, as long as the dog's weight is within a healthy range.

JD loves Stella & Chewy's patties, too, although he loses interest if he gets them too often, so we use them as occasional treats. Which at that price is fine by me, lol!

[KC]

Karen, I have been wondering if maybe my cup and their cup are not the same. He is definitely eating enough, growing well, a big dog, but not fat. By which I mean, he is so fluffy and loose limbed that he looks larger than he is, but run your hands down his side, and you can feel ribs and hard muscle. In terms of exercise, he walks twice a day, an hour each time, he goes to the dog park 3 to 4 times a week and runs around there for an hour each time, and goes to doggie day care twice a week for about 6 hours, where he usually plays non-stop and comes home so tired he is conked out for the rest of the day and sometimes even for most of the next morning. So what would he be called? Not a working dog, not super active like the ones jogging with their owners, but not a couch potato either. I should probably work out how many ounces are in the one cup scoop we use. (It's a doggie scoop sold at the pet store as a one cup scoop, but who knows). Off to read the bag and see what a one cup means in terms of something more accurately measurable.

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I use a plain plastic one cup measuring cup, but I was overfeeding JD, because I was filling it to the brim and counting that as one cup. But then I noticed that the "one cup" line was well below the rim of the cup. Filled to the brim, the cup probably holds 1.25 to 1.33 cups.

I would call Milo an active dog. But there's not much to worry about in feeding a little less. If he looks good, the vet likes his weight, and he's got plenty of energy, he's probably eating enough. Leaner is always better than heavier.

[KC]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but since the OP had mentioned being concerned about the dood eating less than the recommended amounts, I went to check exactly how much I was feeding Milo. He gets one scoop (250 ml) twice a day, or 230 grams of kibble a day. Acana recommends for his size and by their definition of active about 550-660 grams a day. So that is definitely more than half of what he is supposed to be eating.

He also gets: one scoop of plain yogurt every day, about 10 zuke's salmon bits, 1 liver treat cube, a one inch cube of cheese, but I doubt this adds up to the remaining calorie count. So, Karen, atleast for Milo, Acana's recommendations are way over.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

KC, the 550-630 gram recommendation on the Acana Pacifica bag is for a dog weighing 91-110 lbs. Is Milo that big?

[KC]

Ha! Karen, bows and applause. I read the kilograms and thought pounds. But,h e is about 55 pounds which is 320-550 grams, which is still almost a cup more a day at the lower estimate. But good catch.

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

LOL.

The 320-550 grams is for a huge weight range of 45 to 90 lbs. So we assume that if a dog weighs 45 lbs, he should get about 320 gms and a 90 lb dog should get 550 gms. anything in between, you would kind of proportionately increase or decrease the amount accordingly.  So you're right that their estimate is high, but the feeding guidelines have to assume the dog is deriving most if not all of his daily calories from the kibble.

[Tracey Birling]

Thanks everyone! Well I went to the feed store in my town, (didn't have time to go to the specialty shop that sells orijen yet), and got some samples of  TOTW and a 5 lb bag (they didn't have samples) of Canidae ALS. They had the grain free, but the owner said that they hardly sell any of it, and she is about to ship them off to another store. So I thought I'd try the ALS since she said that's probably their biggest "mover" in the store (along w/ totw) and she'll always have it. The canidae seemed to be the winner as far as Mr. Cooper is concerned. I put a little pile of each on the floor in "his room" (sunroom) and he gobbled up the canidae right away. He sniffed all of them but went for the Canidae. I then mixed some in w/ his previous food and he wouldn't touch it. So I gave him the Canidae straight up (I know, not recommended) and he at it right up. His stools the last two days have been perfectly formed, probably the best they've ever been. I'm hoping that he doesn't get bored w/ this food in a week as he has seemed to do w/ other foods. My husband thinks I should just start topping his food w/ canned or plain yogurt (which he loves both), but am I wrong in hoping not to do this? The cost isn't an issue, I just don't want to turn him into a picky eater... Thanks for the input everyone! Tracey & Cooper

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Tracey - sounds like you may have found a winner!  Which is great!  No worries about the transition - sometimes you have to do it cold-turkey.

My only comments: if he really is picky, you may have to put some toppings on his food.  The Canidae ALS comes in one variety; granted, it has 4 different proteins, but he still may tire of it. 

Toppings I suggest that are healthy and should not cause weight gain (use 2 tablespoons or so):

1. canned green beans, no salt added (heat up)

2. canned carrots..same as above

3. small bits of apples

4. fresh carrots, cut up small

5. watermelon, cut up small (my dogs go bananas for this)

 

Basically, those are our favorites, but you can use any veggie or fruit (stay away from very acidic items such as oranges, pineapple, etc.. and GRAPES, avocados, onions (why would they want that??).

 

My chihuahua eats a homecooked meal and it includes mixed veggies that you find in the frozen section (made for soups).  Both of mine like OKRA, yes, okra, can you believe it? All of these are super yummy to them.