Question about correcting dogs with Firework fear issues

[Jennifer and Jack]

I want to tread on this lightly as I have only owned one dog for two years ever in my entire life so I don't want to pretend like I understand something that I just don't. I posted this on another section but it was a different thread and I don't want to hijack it.

 

I was thinking about the dogs that have fear or fireworks and that in theory it is an unwanted behavior.  what I was taught when Jack was a puppy, in the process of socializing him. I was told to bang on a lot of pots and pans and make loud noises. I was told that if he showed any sign of fear or whimpering I was to not cuddle him, not comfort him but to correct him and tell him "no" I could tell him he was okay but any sign of trying to comfort him would further validate the fact that he had something to be fearful of.

 

Last night on the boat, Jack at one point started to climb in my lap during the fireworks, I corrected him and say NO Jack, your fine, and he went on and continued to play.

 

So my question is, do you think that correcting and retraining a dog that has a fear based issue would be helpful and maybe make them less fearful of the fireworks?

 

I don't know if it is as simple as correcting an unwanted behavior or not. I don't have any experience with it as Jack has not shown signs of fear really, except when I leave him and walk to a place where he can't go with me. I have corrected him firmly when he whines and have had some success.

 

What do you think?

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

I think perhaps you have something there.  Perhaps we transfer our fears onto our pets?  I have been making lots of loud noises around Riley and he is totally calm, not reacting at all.  I have had lots of dogs and none of them were afraid of fireworks or storms both of which I love. ( we don't get killer storms here)  I do think there are some dogs perhaps who have very sensitive hearing and for whom the sounds are just too loud for comfort.  Perhaps they need ear plugs?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Nicky,

your example falls into the category of desensitizing more so than the correction method.  I agree, this is the best method if given a chance to start a puppy from the beginning. 

 

[Jennifer and Jack]

I don't know maybe?? I know Jack hated the sound and the feel of the razor... He had  very hard time at the groomers for a while, I pulled him out of being groomed and I got him used to it, I corrected any unwanted behavior, it took a lot of time but he is good with it now.

 

I do think that even if dogs don't pick up on our fears, our behavior can dictate to them what to fear because comforting them etc reiterates to them to be fearful, I think ultimately and I am NO WHERE near there, if Jack see's me as the total pack leader, that he does not have to be fearful or afraid because he is not in charge, I am.

 

IDK, I am not there yet, I couldn't walk in the house yesterday without Jack yelping for me, I had to correct him a few times. All dogs have their own issues.. I just wonder about correcting it. I think if I could teach Jack to stop worrying when I leave him when we are out, or if I can teach him to not love but tolerate calmly the razor that maybe dogs with other fear issues can be taught to be calm.

 

Just some thoughts.. I don't know anything for sure and Jack certainly is not totally trained, he will jump on you still at two years old when he is excited... it is my fault though.. I need to do better training..

[Adina P]

I think in the context of stuff they know: obedience commands  or in the context of things they've been trained not to do being consistent with corrections is fine.  But correcting fear itself or cowering I'm not too sure about.  Boca was a bit thrown off by fireworks so far and didn't want to go out like she normally does 10X an hour.  And she was a wee bit slinkier in her stance after a loud firework sounded.  So I spent a very brief time putting her through some heel work and she livened right up (temporarily) because it was something she knew.  In that context a poor heel, poor halt, etc I would correct because whether it is due to fear or excitement or impulse she can't get away with ignoring her work when asked to work.  Through this she learns to figure out how to cope with those feelings.  But I don't punish feelings.  I also don't think it is the end of the world to give a dog some comfort and allow them to be close if they are afraid.  It probably depends on the situation.

[Jennifer and Jack]

I totally hear what you are saying I don't punish feeling in humans or dogs... I just have to wonder about the mentality of dogs. You know I consider Jack my child, I love him more then life... in my brief and limited understanding of dogs mentality. I was under the impression they don't think the same way as a human being so comforting them during a behavior where they are acting fearful would in fact, feed into their fear because it tells them there is something to fear.

 

I think I need to clarify a correction, I am not talking about pulling on their neck with a collar to correct them, I am thinking of telling them to stop, that they are okay and then like you said, distracting them with something different. I would never correct Jack harshly, I would just tell him to stop his behavior. He seems to take his cue from me, If I am calm, sure of myself and the situation, so is he, if I cuddle him, or he senses I feel sorry for him, and believe me he knows when I do ,like dropping him off at the groomers or taking him to the vet, his personality changes instantly. He will wrap his paws around my arms, hug me and not let go. If I reassure him he is fine, for some reason he seems to believe me. I don't know if it is just his personality though. That is the problem with only owning one dog one time in your life, you just don't know and don't really know if it is your training or the personality they would have had anyway...

[Adina P]

That sounds reasonable.  Just a 'hey knock it off already, everything's fine, quit being dramatic' type of thing isn't a big deal and I don't think it should hurt.

 

I have read that one shouldn't try to 'comfort' a scared dog but instead make it like its no big deal.  I think for the most part that's good advice.  But lately I read an article that said that humans can NOT reinforce fear--that it's not possible.  If that's the case then it doesn't matter if you pet your dog or let him snuggle in close or ignore your dog ... if it's afraid of something it is afraid of something.  Obviously there are things one can do with some fears (apparently NOT something as severe as Carol's dog mentioned below) to minimize them or desensitize them to it. 

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

There is a fine line here....  Comfort is one thing, Rewarding is another.  Often times it is confusing.   Giving a dog a cookie during fear is not acceptable, but calming and comforting a dog is okay. 

That's the way I understood this concept.

Reacting to your dog, when you dog shows fear is also not to be confused with comfort.  Does this make sense?

Sorry, just spent a better part of a year BEING TRAINED MYSELF to this problem so this one is dear to my heart.  Don't mean to write a book in this discussion. LOL

[Jennifer and Jack]

Joanne since you have been trained so much on this I love to hear what your thoughts are. I really like to hear everyone's perspectives..... especially people who have experience with dogs.

 

When you say it is okay to comfort them, what types of examples can you give of what you would do, to me, comfort would be picking Jack up, cuddling with him and soothing him in a baby voice.... I actually use food all the time to stop Jack from doing a behavior I don't want him to do.. Example I usually fill his puzzle with treats or his kong with peanut butter right before a guest comes so that it will divert him the excitement of them coming and prevent him from jumping on then,, It gives the people enough time to get in the house and for him to get over the initial excitement. 

 

So I would not give Jack a treat if he was already jumping on someone, nor would I give him a treat for any unwanted behavior. I think we are all saying the same thing.

 

I am really needing to learn more, puppy number two is coming in four weeks....Thanks for sharing, everyone, one your experiences are.

[shelly]

I wish I cold divert Tori's attention when she is in her zone mode... No matter HAT she is doing.. if she hears someone coming NOTHING can sway her from her 'stance'... not even her FAVORITES... bread or pretzels.... no matter where she is or what she is doing when she hears the crinkle of a (pretzel) bag, she comes running from where ever she is in the house... but not even saying "you want a pretzel" will divert her fix on an approaching guest or delivery man... UGH!  Week 2 of my vacation and I am definitely going to work on this! (SO MOVE OVER STARLIT make room for your sidekick -TORI the Drama Princess! LOL)

[Kritsch]

My dog is afraid of fireworks too. I think its natural, I mean they are really loud and bright, they often frighten children too.

[shelly]

I'm not so sure.... Tori has a lot o,f shall we say... 'hang-ups', but she is NOT bothered by fireworks or thunder at all (maybe that's why the "Thundershirt" never worked for her -lol). She'll run and hide under the table tho' if we 'get loud' (if the boys fight or argue), she's wary of strangers coming in or NEAR our home, loves to "go in the car" but shakes frantically during the ride, but never is bothered by fireworks or thunder... we did not "teach" her this or "train" her this way... she just "WAS"... I think they are like children... all just come equipped with certain tendencies built in... my oldest son was TERRIFIED by characters in costumes - forget going to Disney... my youngest - NOTHING.. so go figure... sounds like a good study, however!

[Carol Brand]

I've had dogs my whole life and I am the antithesis of a coddler.   I'm big into the whole tough love thing.  If I need my dogs to be Ok with something whether it be grooming or working agility equipment et al, by golly they are going to learn to be OK with it.  

 

That said, I once had a Smooth Fox Terrier who was absolutely terrified of thunderstorms and fireworks.  This bitch was, like many terriers, tenacious to a fault.  She once totally schooled a Rottie who make the unfortunate mistake of trying to steal her Frisbee.   I would say that she had an otherwise solid and stable temperament.  When it came to thunderstorms and fireworks, though, she would completely lose her marbles.  She became highly erratic and would run with no thought to where she might be going.   She would try to "go to ground".  Once, when she was inside during a thunderstorm, she dug through the carpet and pad and down to the sub floor, making her feet a bloody mess in the process.  We did our best to manage the behavior including giving medication, but there was absolutely NO way to train around it.  I feel like something went haywire in her brain.