Help with Stranger Anxiety (again)...(this time the victim is the poor UPS Guy)

[shelly]

I know I've posted about this NUMEROUS times, but here goes again....

I'm exhausted from running up and down the stairs every time Tori barks today.  Our next door older widowed neighbor has recently been having a 'friend' over.  he comes over frequently on his motorcycle (well more like a big mini-bike).  I have been working on the "no bark" when she barks out the window at the new 'friend', and treating her with small pieces of.... pretzels - her favorite treat.  It's been working pretty well when I'm on top of it.

 

 She also FREAKS out when the UPS guy comes (which is a lot here).  She can actually hear the van coming down the road and no matter where she is in the house, she tears down to the window and barks CRAZILY!  (the poor guy is so used to it, that he mozies on up to my in-laws side door and drops the package, waves to Tori and walks back to his truck.  

 

So here's my question.  I thought of letting her smell the package that comes and then treating her with the bits of pretzel... do you think she could actually associate the pretzels, with the box, with the truck??? (I know she's awfully smart, but, am I pushing it just a bit?)  I'd love to block off the rooms with the front windows, but that's just impossible, and she'd probably only bark at the blockade I made, not solving anything.  I'm also worried because I will be starting a kitchen remodel and "strangers" will be doing some work here.

[shelly]

LOL, Joanne... sure pull the "teacher card" ... YOU'RE RIGHT!  we did do classes.... she cowered, and laid down... wouldn't do A THING!  but did everything at home beautifully!  So we switched to an in-home trainer that was a bust last summer.. all she did was feed Tori treats that gave her diarrhea!  I think I'll pull out my old list of trainers and begin again!  Actually... teacherly speaking... it was like that mom who comes in for parent teacher conferences and I tell her her child needs work on reading, and she says, "but she reads great at home"... lol

[Adina P]

Yeah that doesn't sound like a very good class/trainer if when she SEES Tori refuse to do anything the trainer does...um...nothing to help you change that.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Shelly, I've been thinking a lot about this today.  Here are a few of my thoughts...

• I really don't think it's going to be easy to solve the barking issue in isolation.  I was able to do it with my guys, but it was based on several months of "basic training".  They had learned that I meant what I said.
• Blocking off access to the windows doesn't really solve the problem...it just masks it.
• It sounds like most of your training has been treat based.  While that works for some dogs, it doesn't work for all.  The fact that Tori is not changing her behavior to get the treat reward tells me that it is just not motivational enough for HER.  If the behavior (barking in this case) is more desirable than the treat, she's not going to change.
• I really think you need to decide what training approach you want to pursue.  If you want to use a "correction based" training strategy, you will need to make that decision and stick to it.  Treats are fine when she demonstrates the behavior you are seeking, but when she doesn't she would need to have a "motivational correction". 
• I think you will need to decide what level of barking is acceptable to you.  My trainer told me that it is possible to teach a dog to bark once or twice and then stop OR you can teach your dog not to bark at all.  There are two different methods used.  I opted for not barking at all, so my guys are corrected for the first bark.  The other alternative is training the dog to STOP barking when you've had enough.  The methods again are slightly different.
• I think you probably know that I am a strong proponent of using a great trainer...either in a classroom situation or at your home.  That said, I understand your issues with the financial implications and your DH.  I do belong to an online training site that I think is pretty good.  It does cost $, but is extremely reasonable and way less expensive than a trainer.  There are lots of resources offered through the site....a book, videos, and online responses to all your questions from trainers.  The thing is you really need to commit to the program and do the recommended reading and exercises for it to work.  If you are interested send me a message and I'll share the link.  I should add that this program does use corrections administered with a prong collar.  There is lots of information about how to fit and use the collar so that it does not inflict any "pain" to your dog.  I think if you read the information provided on the site about the prong it will probably alleviate any misconceptions you may have....but it is NOT for everyone.

I know you have been struggling and trying really hard with Tori.  My personal opinion is at this point it will help you so much if you can just decide on an approach to training that you can be comfortable with....and one that actually produces RESULTS.  You know we are all here for you and want to help.

 

[shelly]

JANE.. Thank you so much for your help and support!  You have brought tears to my eyes... I think the  problem is more ME than Tori!  I know if used correctly a prong collar does produce results.  I did use it with my GR, but he was 125 pounds and very strong and stubborn.  I just can't use it with Tori.  She's so timid and I don't know, but I think using the prong would put her on the defensive.  I could see her snapping when I would try to put it on.  So there I am.... sounding like I'm asking for help, but not taking advice...so sorry!  I DO like the idea of the online training exercises! I am again going to look into other avenues for training.  I HAVE been slacking BIG time... I have been letting 'life' get in the way  - THANKS SOOOOO MUCH!  I SO appreciate it!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Oh Shelly, you are SO welcome.  Here's one more thought.  If "you can see her snapping when you try to put the training collar on", that's probably something you want to think about.  If you can tell yourself (and really mean it) that you are "the boss" of Tori, and YOU know what's best for her, that's a HUGE start to your training.  It took me months to get to that point.  I kept feeling bad for Murph and making excuses for his totally unacceptable behavior because he did get moved around as a puppy.  It wasn't until a trainer explained to me that I was doing him no favors, and that most of his reactions were because he did not have confidence in me and thought he had to "take care of himself" that I truly "got it".  Recognizing that I was in charge and would take care of everything took most of the pressure off him.  He will always be a nervous guy...that's just how he's wired, but things are so much better for him now that I really understand what's going on.  Again, good luck, and please keep us posted on how things are going.

[shelly]

You're right again!  I don't mean snapping and biting... more like that alligator thing - none the less.. still trying to push me away.... I will definitely be working on being more dominant with her as well.   I do really need to understand her thinking.... she's so 'on top' of this is my house and family and I have to protect them.... yesterday she was up in the bedroom with me when someone came to drop something off for DH - she didn't even hear them come... tv was on w/ ac on... when we let her go down, she casually walked down the stairs and when she came to the spot in the hall where the guy came in and walked into our kitchen.... it was like she was a tracker sniffing back and forth like crazy... she just knew... ran to the window and looked all around - but did not bark but unbelievable...

[Adina P]

This is why you need a good trainer. It's not the prong itself that will 'cure' Tori of her behavior.  It's a whole plan of training and your follow through with that plan.  You don't just get a prong fitted correctly and then randomly correct for things you don't like.  You need to use it as part of a training plan that you're being guided in by a good trainer.   And remember prongs aren't just for huge dogs ... they are perfectly safe and effective for other dogs.  Before I started actually putting in time to train Boca, she was a little 4-5 month old puppy who was a pain to walk because she was so spastic and pulled on leash.  The prong helped corral her just enough so I didn't HATE walking her.  She was definitely NOT 125 lbs at that age--closer to the 30 lb range. 

Good luck in your trainer search.  And when you interview trainers...look for those who actually care about results.  Too many will try to convince you about how 'fun' and 'nice' their methods are but won't make a single statement about results.  Fun and nice don't matter much when there are no results or the results won't happen until Tori is 10 years old.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Jane cured Murphy of the staring/fixation/aggression with a trainer and a class and, of course, her follow up.  You might talk with her about the class. Perhaps there is one in your area?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

I'll be writing to Jane also.  I could use more --all the help I can get at home, everyday, on a continual basis.

[shelly]

THANKS, Nancy!!  Yes! I am going to go back to the list of trainers and try again!  There was one who I called and we never got to connect... she was called "Zen-dog"... the name intrigued me and I really liked her website.... after this party is over, I'm hitting the phone! (sigh)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

You're right, Nancy.  Murph was a "big time starer".  He locked in and stared, and then he went "nuts".  Now he is not allowed to even look at another dog for more than a second.....and he knows it.  With Murph the ears go back and forth a couple times before he locks in on the dog (or person).  That's when he gets corrected, and it snaps him right out of it.  Timing is critical with a dog who does this.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Shelly, we love you and Tori.

Jane, what a nice message.  I know Shelly has struggled long and hard and I think what you wrote is right on for her.  Good luck to us all.