collar and attention issues

[Heather & Jake]

I need some serious help/tips/advice as I'm so extremely frustrated with Jake not recognizing corrections when he loses his focus and gets distracted on certain collars.  I am able to stay calm during the situation, I'm just fed up with having to deal with it in the first place. 

We started on the gentle leader where he was good until he learned to stiffen his neck rendering corrections useless so we switched to the prong.  On the prong his behavior was pretty much perfect and he responded very well to corrections. We got to the point where I didn't even have to hold his leash just drape it around my neck and walk past dogs, people, bikes, you name it, he's perfect with no pulling and watching me, even if the other dog is flipping out!  I thought he knew his stuff and since we are training for his CGC exam, we could try a collar that wasn't as harsh...  well now I know he only acted so good on a prong is because the corrections "hurt" and not because he learned "I'm not supposed to do this." 

For a week I tried a slip/choke collar to no avail.  He walks great right next to me but we are back to when he sees distractions I cease to exist and he pulls, lunges, barks, and jumps to get over to them almost knocking me over and choking himself to death.  This weekend, I picked up a martingale collar hoping that might work but we are having the same results (with a little less choking) around distractions.

Is there any way to wean them off a stronger correction collar???  I feel so helpless because no matter what I do when he is on a flat, martingale, or choke collar he doesn't care about the corrections and just is single minded to get to whatever he wants to.  He's like a completely different dog and I'm like where did my well behaved boy go?!?  Of course our trainer thinks he will have no problem passing the exam as he acts PERFECTLY in our outdoor class (which is in a very busy location with lots of distractions), so I don't understand why he doesn't act this way all the time... so frustrating when you doodle knows when to show off!!!

 

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Heather, he is still young.  What is the hurry here?  Is he treat motivated?  Is he getting positive reinforcement when he does what is expected?  Have you tried some high value treats  with the kind of collar that CGC will allow?

[Heather & Jake]

Thank you all for your input!  Just getting responses and support helps me feel less overwhelmed... and you're all right, he is only 10 months so there is no big rush; in general he does do really well for his age and it's not like I'm planning to stop/slow down training anytime soon!  I guess since he is my first dog I can be a bit unrealistic with the timeline, so thank you for the reality check!

We are going to go back to the prong for the meantime and I'll take my time weaning him off... If he doesn't pass his exam Thursday I am not worried.  Our trainer is just offereing it at our last class and even if we don't pass, it will be a good place to see where Jake does need more work (as if I don't already know it lol).

We are actually pretty lucky with the off leash work; besides "sit," "come" is his best command.  You say "come" or tap your leg twice and he sprints all the way... probably because most of the off leash and come work we've done involves tennis balls which are his reason for living! :)  This always gets a kick at the dog park to anyone that shouts "come" to their dog, and Jake almost always comes to them within seconds!  It also helps that he is a little Velcro puppy so he does not like to be more than a few feet away at all times.

As for rewards/treats, we've done almost all of his training without treats and only praise (or a tennis ball) due to digestion issues as Jane knows, but we recently figured out what he can use... homemade liver treats.  He looooves these but they are hard to use on a walk as he also loves to stop and take his enjoy his time eating them no matter how small of a piece I give to him.  And it's hard to use the ball on a walk as his reward for obvious reasons.  I guess we haven't been praising him as much for doing the right thing on the new collars as we did when he learned on the old... we can work on that easily though.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Good luck on Thursday.  When Webber did his CGC I was far more nervous than he was.  He loved to perform and I was worrying about perfection.  He passed and I felt stupid!  He will do anything for a treat so it was relatively easy.

[Heather & Jake]

I forgot to add we do use a clicker so I that is another "reward" he gets.

[Heather & Jake]

Just thought I'd give a quick update here; for the last two days we've gone back to the prong with a couple of them turned out and we're back to a perfectly behaved puppy.  If we're not rained out tonight Jake will have his exam... I'll update tomorrow and let you know how it went!

But I do have a quick question that I thought of last night... Jake now walks in a perfect heel on the prong though I never thought him the command "heel" but just to walk there.   Since I now know he doesn't walk in a perfect heel on other collars, I want to teach the command so it helps bring him back to me around a distraction on the other collars.  How can I teach the word "heel" when he's already doing it perfectly on the prong without confusing him?  I feel he will have no idea what it means if I just say it as we are walking and don't want him to think it means something else.  I didn't teach it before when he was always a few inches too far out to be in a true heel and didn't want him to think that was what it meant.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think when you start out have him in a sit.  Then lead off and as your foot steps out say "heel".  Eventually he should begin to associate that position with the command.  At the beginning I stopped quite often and put him into a sit (eventually he went to auto sit).  Then I led off again using "heel" as my command.  I might do this 10 - 20 times in a single "heel" exercise.  Good luck....can't wait to hear the news.

[Carol Brand]

Perfect heel position is achieved when a dog's ear is parallel to the handler's thigh during every step or change of pace or turn.  Try altering your pace (faster or slower) see if Jake keeps his position.  PRAISE PRAISE TREAT if he does or a slight correction on the collar if he does not (then  PRAISE PRAISE when he moves into position).  Work turns into your heeling.  Turns in either direction should always be lead with your left leg/foot.  

 

You can also practice heel position from a stand still.  Say HEEL and turn 1/4 to the right.  The dog should move into heel position.  Try it 1/2 to the right.  PRAISE if it is right, correct if it is not.   Turning to the left is more challenging to the dog because they have to lift and move their hind end backwards.  You can also step aside from the dog and call him to HEEL.

[Heather & Jake]

Jake's class was cancelled last night so now we are taking the exam on Tuesday evening... gives us a little more time to "study."  Thank you both for the heeling tips.  He does walk with his ear parallel to my thigh but not so much when we turn or slow down; it takes him a few seconds to get back into position.  So I guess we haven't gotten the perfect heel yet, I will defintiely work on this... probably all weekend since we will be stuck in the house and I need some way to drain his energy!  He loves practing those pivots you describe Carol but I never put the word heel to them so we will try that.

[Heather & Jake]

Well... Jake passed his CGC exam at 11 months and 3 days old!!!  And we did it on the flat collar no less... he did everything perfectly of course to be the little class show off.  But I see what you mean Carol about the test being too easy now and half-trained dogs passing the exam... and that this is because of the test administrator.  There was definitely one dog in our class who should NOT have passed yet did because the administrator was lenient due to all the additional distractions.  There was five of us in our little test area was sandwiched between a field house with an indoor soccer game on one side, and on the other side a group of about 12 small kids playing kickball (with no aim so the ball would come flying by periodically), and then people walking through our test area with or without dogs and bikes throughout the exam.  Luckily, Jake seemed to understand it was test time and watched me and listened to everything very well.  The only time he could have faulted was when we were walking though a crowd he pulled toward someone for a second then corrected himself back into a loose leash walk.  To me, this was great considering how he usually does not do that on the flat.  Anywho, back to the training now and seeing how far we can go! 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Woo Hoo....Congratulations to you and Jake.   Yes, keep going with the training and let us know what you're working on.  Could you please post the picture of Jake that you want me to use for the Training Group collage?

[Carol Brand]

Well done.  Now on to a CD!

[charlotte bednarsh]

My 20 month old labradoodle "Paz" passed the Delta therapy registration when he was 14 months, and when he is working his behavior is almost flawless (he wears a sensation harness). However, I live in Lower Manhattan, NYC where it is very busy with lots of distractions, and when I am walking Paz I have to use a prong collar so he will listen, otherwise he pulls & virtually looks at everything that passes his way.  I've tried the martingale collar and that didn't seem to really help; however, once I put the prong collar on, Paz is well behaved.  I decided rather than getting frustrated, I'll keep using the prong when he is not working, unless someone else comes up with a better idea.