Orijen Regional Red for 13 week puppy

[Christie and Jake]

Here's my problem.  The breeder fed Jake Purina Pro Plan Chicken and Rice.  I have been very slowly transitioning Jake over to Orijen Regional Red.  His stools have been soft so I would add pumpkin.  This morning, he woke me up at 2:00am and he had to go to the bathroom and he had a large bowel movement.  He woke me up again at 6:30 and I took him out again, but this time only to pee.  I took him back in to feed him and he really wasn't hungry.  Within about 20 minutes, he had diarrhea on my thank goodness hardwood floor.  He was just at the vet last week and was completely healthy, no worms, etc.  I'm beginning to think this food may be too rich for my 7lb mini dood.  Opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated.  I don't do well cleaning up messes like this as I have a very sensitive stomach myself!

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

Cosmo's breeder started him on Orijen Puppy, and we continued that until he was about 8.5 months old--then we began his transition to the Adult formula. I know that all the Orijen formulas are for all life stages, but it seems to me that the Puppy formula may be better for a 13-week-old puppy.

[Nella Krone]

Orijen is a very high protien dog food. Try Acana made from the same company. I had the same problem with Orijen and as soon as I switched Daisy to Acana her stools now are small and no more diaharria and wet stools!!

[Gayle Miller]

Hi Christie!

I got my Jackson at 8 weeks old (he's now 5 mos) and my breeder had him on Acana - Wild Prarrie - all stages.  Acana is made by Orijen. She also fed her adult dogs and the pups Oirjen but found the protein content to be a bit too much.  Acana is made by Orijen and if you compare the labels, it has a bit less protein but is still superior in quality.  The good thing is the Wild Prarie is all stage and I do not have to transition him from puppy food to adult food.  His stool has always been firm with 2 - 3 a day.  He's thriving and healthy and it's a blessing I have not experienced any of the food problems I realy about....at least thus far!  Good luck!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Both Proplan chicken and rice and Orijen regional red contain 18% fat. "Richness" in food refers to fat content, so that's not the issue here.

Both fat and fiber have an effect on stool consistency. Again, both foods contain 3% fiber, so that's not the issue, either.

What I'm thinking is that you chose a food that is very very different from the one you puppy was accustomed to eating. Completely different protein sources, no grain, and many other nutritional differences. That's a huge change especially for such a young puppy. He's very young, and his digestive system is still immature. The introduction of so many new ingredients would be hard on him; it's just like with babies, new foods need to be introduced one at a time.

 I'm wondering why you didn't choose the Orijen Puppy formula?

Also, Orijen is more nutrient dense than ProPlan, so you would feed less. I couldn't find calorie information on the Purina food, but Regional Red contains 480 calories per cup, which is about as high as it gets. The feeding guidelines for a 7 lb dog are only 2/3 to 3/4 of a cup per day. If you are feeding him 3x a day, that would be a quarter of a cup or less at each feeding. If you're giving more than that, he's being overfed. Overfeeding can cause frequent BMs and diarrhea. It may also be why your pup isn't hungry.

Is he fully transitioned yet, or are you still mixing foods? In this case, I would go cold turkey; the foods are too different to do a successful transition combining them. It usually takes about 4-7 days once a dog is fully transitioned to a new food for the system to adjust.

Lastly, if the stool has been getting progressively softer, I would have the vet run another stool specimen. Giardia is common in doodle puppies, and it has 10-14 day incubation period. Try to get several different samples, as the giardia cysts may not be present in every sample. If he's negative for giardia, I think I would try Orijen Puppy instead of the Regional Red.

[Ozzy Bob and Leanna]

Christie, I would change his kibble from Red to something else.  Apparently, it's causing this problem and I'd be just like you having to clean up messes!  It could be that Jake has a little intestional bug that will be short lived!  Good luck! 

[Christie and Jake]

Thank you all so much for the information and advice.  I'm thinking my problem might be overfeeding!  I've been giving him 1/2 C mixture of Pro Plan and Orijen twice a day.  Since the two arent anywhere near compatible, I'm going cold turkey orijen only starting tonight.  He didn't eat this morning.  I'll add some pumpkin and see how that goes over the next few days.  If it doesn't clear up, I'll have him retested by the vet and go from there.   I was advised by a local owned pet store to go with the Regional Red because they liked Orijen the best and it was the top of the line.  They told me it was an All Stages and would be fine for my Dood.  They said if I went with it instead of the puppy Orijen that I wouldn't have to transition him again.  I purchased the largest bag of course (big mistake) and hate to waste $80 if I don't have to.  If you have any further thoughts, please let me know.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, I think your plan sounds reasonable. It does sound like you may be overfeeding, depending on the proportions of the mixture.

While I agree that Orijen is the best kibble money can buy, I don't agree with the pet store owner on the choice of formulas. If you wanted to go with an adult formula to keep from having to transition again, (and it would have been a very easy transition from Orijen Puppy to Orijen Adult, as they are very similar) the Orijen Adult formula (blue bag, poultry based) might have been a better choice. It's also the least expensive of the three Orijen adult formulas, which may have contributed to the owner's choice of the regional Red, which is the most expensive of the three.

Let us know how it goes.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Another tip about buying kibble. While we all want to save money, and it's true that the larger bags are more economical in terms of price per lb., it's not a good idea to buy more dry food than your dog will eat in a month, unless you can freeze it.

There are several reasons for this, including freshness and the possibility of cereal or storage mites getting into dry food.

I was doing some rough calculations based on the fact that my Jack eats roughly 3 cups per day and a 5.5 lb bag lasts him approximately one week. That would mean that there are roughly 21 cups of kibble in a 5.5 lb bag. That would mean that in a 15.4 lb bag, there are 58.8 cups, and in a 29.7 lbs bag (the largest) there are 113.4 cups. Even if you pup ate 1 cup per day, the 30 (29.7 lb) bag would last almost 4 months. IMO, that's too long a time for kibble to be sitting around, even in an air-tight container.

 

[Christie and Jake]

This is sooo frustrating!  I thought I was doing the right thing by going to a small local owned pet store that sells quality food and treats.  I trusted them because I didn't know.  They told me that big bag would be just as fresh as the day I opened it as long as I kept it in an airtight container.  Apparently, they saw naive fool written on my forehead and took advantage of me.  I think I'll just forget about the $80 dollar bag of food because it's over a month old now anyway.  So here's my next question, do I buy Orijen Puppy and have it shipped (closest dealer is 1 1/2 hours away and is the one that I went to before) or do I go with what I originally planned that I can buy 40 miles from home (Blue Buffalo Puppy lamb and oatmeal)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The picture is clearer to me now; I think you're saying the local store doesn't carry the Orijen Puppy formula? That would be the reason the store owner talked you into another formula, I think. Does the store carry Acana? That's another food made by Champion and it's a very high quality food as well.

When you refer to "pet store", I hope you don't mean that they sell pets there? Hopefully they only sell pet supplies. You do not want to patronize any store that sells puppies.

Orijen is far superior to Blue Buffalo. If you did go with the Blue, I would stick with the Wilderness grain-free formula.

There are lots of on-line companies that will ship Orijen, and their prices are very good. Petflow is one of my favorites, but there are many others. You might also check the store locator (the Recommended Brands list has website links you can check.) for another store that's closer to you.

Or you can check the Recommended List for other grain-free formulas that your local store does stock.

[Christie and Jake]

I'm sorry I'm being so confusing.  The original pet store only sells pet supplies!!!  I would never ever patronize a puppy mill.  The store did carry a full line of Orijen including the puppy Orijen but they still suggested I go with Regional Red.  I suspect it's because it was higher in price.  This store is over and hour and a half away.  They told me the big bag would stay fresh and I agreed to go with that because I wouldn't have to make the trip as often.  My reason for re-thinking Blue Buffalo is because the only pet supply stores near me are PetsMart and the best they carry is Blue Buffalo.  I guess I just need to order the Orijen Puppy or Acana and have it shipped.  I suppose the savings in gas will end up covering the extra expense for shipping.  I'm just so aggravated because I had researched all of this before Jake came home and thought I had it covered.  Apparently I didn't do such a good job of researching and now my poor boy is paying the price.  He had soft stools at lunch and a little diarrhea.  I feel horrible that I've torn his stomach up like this.  I just thought I was giving him the very best :(

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

Petflow.com and some of the other sites often have specials on shipping--sometimes, it's free over a certain dollar amount or at a greatly reduced rate (like $5).

We do have a pet supply store here that carries Orijen, but we prefer to have it shipped. It just seems to me that we get a fresher supply from the web sites that deal in more volume.

Christie, don't feel bad about the choices you have made. You had learned a lot and were definitely headed in the right direction. As long as Jake is staying hydrated, I know he'll bounce back from this learning experience! I did something similar by trying to make Cosmo's kibble a little more appetizing with a tablespoon or two of what seemed like a good canned dog food (Merrick). Well, he had it only one meal and afterwards had diarrhea twice. I had him on scrambled eggs for the next two meals (he wouldn't eat the pumpkin), threw the nasty Merrick away. Cosmo bounced right back! You're doing a great job, and our puppies are pretty resilient little guys!

Karen, is it possible to store extra kibble in the freezer to preserve freshness? (If your freezer is big enough!)