Another Murphy Training Meltdown

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

've been having a bit of a training "meltdown" this week over Murph.  He had another little "setback" that seemed to come out of nowhere.  Earlier in the week we took both Doods on a long walk, and Murph was wonderful.  We made it through an hour walk with NO CORRECTIONS.  I was feeling great.  On our way home we decided because they were so good we'd check the dog park in our complex, and if there were no other dogs we'd play some ball....Murph's favorite thing.  As we were driving through the complex Murphy spotted a man walking his Standard Poodle and lost his mind.  He went crazy barking and jumping into the back end of the SUV.  He was in back, and I was in front so I couldn't correct him.  He knows this dog...an older Poodle with a wonderful disposition.  When the dog was out of sight, he quieted right down and we went to play ball.  We played for a little while and then I saw Murphy take off toward the gate.....that's when we saw the Poodle and his owner (a very elderly man) opening the gate.  Murph again "freaked out", and DH went running toward him.  Murph was growling, barking and lunging at this dog, who at that point was cornered (and still on leash).  The Poodle reacted by also growling and showing teeth which made Murph totally board the crazy train.  It was frightening.  DH grabbed his collar and pulled him back and held onto him while the neighbor and his dog made a quick exit.  At that point DH let go of Murph who decided to attack Guinness.  I was able to corner him at that point and correct him....he got the message and stopped.  Poor Guinness was terrified.  I have no idea why this happened at this point with Murphy, but I have been really upset.  We spent a long time yesterday just talking with our trainer about what to do next.  We have a plan, but it's going to be a lot of work....as if we haven't already been working.

Murph is such a situational learner that he only seems to be able to master things in isolation.  So, he has now mastered the walk.  He knows what he can and can't do around other dogs on the walk.  He has mastered the Petstore...same story.  We have worked with him in two town dog parks, but not this one that's in our complex.  So next week we'll work with him and the trainer (who will bring other dogs) in this dog park.  In the meantime, I have to watch him very carefully in the house around Guinness.  I cannot allow any signs of intimidation (which he does frequently).  For example, Murph will sit at the top of the stairs and stare at Guinness who is trying to come up.  Guinness will go half way and then just stop because he's afraid to pass by Murphy.  Those are the types of things I have to stop.  The taking of toys has to stop too.  I have to correct Murph whenever he tries to take something from Guinness.  Murph always marks right over where Guinness pees...that has to stop.  If he sees other dogs while we're driving and goes crazy, we have to pull over, correct and not move forward until he's calm again.  Until our training next week the boys can't be in the "dog park" together unless they're leashed. 

It's all so frustrating and after seeing him attack Guinness, now I have to always be on guard.  I really don't think he'd actually bite Guinness.  It appears to be all about trying to show that he's the "boss".  We think it's just a show of dominance and there really is no aggression involved.  The problem is that when he encounters dogs who don't know him, many will not put up with his dominant behavior and he could get himself into a really dangerous situation.  So now I'm back to watching for ANY signs of dominance (not matter how subtle) and correcting him.  We've always practiced the NLIF strategies, so it's not like he's been allowed to be "in control".  I think it must be so hard wired into this guy that it is going to be a very long and tough "fix".

You're probably all getting really sick of my "Murphy Training Dilemmas" by now.  He's just such a puzzle.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Carol, I know you have tons of experience with dogs.  Have you ever come across something like this before?  It's almost like he has to be "proofed" with every possible situation or he reverts back to his reactiveness.  It's also like he's "playing a game with me" about who is "in control".  He is now not allowed to solicit affection from me....e.g. putting his head on my lap...I must always initiate any affection.  He defers to me around the house....I go out first, I eat first, I always go up and down the stairs and has to wait until I'm at the top before he can join me, we do lots of long down stays, he will not bark at the door when I'm around.  He seems to "get it" and he fully complies.  But it seems to me if he fully saw me as his "leader" he would not have these unpredicted "outbursts".

[Carol Brand]

I don't think that he doesn't see you as the leader, I think he is just super reactive and that his "nature" sometimes overtakes all the "nurture" you do.  I was thinking about Murphy over the weekend.  I can't help but wonder if in his mind the situation went something like this:

 

He sees Poodle outside of car and goes into hyper territorial mode.  Car continues driving so the other dog seems to be going away.  In Murphy's mind he thinks he has successfully drive off an intruder.  Then, the same dog shows up again at the park and Murphy's thinking, "Hey!  I already told you to buzz off once today. Clearly you did not get the message so now I have to teach you a lesson!"   (Goes into attack mode.)

 

The biggest issue I see is that Murphy is taking too much on himself.  He is inventing jobs for himself.  I think things are better in the house because YOU are giving him things to do so it takes the pressure off.  However, when he is outside and he gets stressed, he starts acting on his own recognizance. 

 

Have you considered putting him on meds to help take the edge off?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think you're exactly right about what Murph was "thinking".  Every time he is successful at chasing off another dog he's reinforced.  I'm now riding in the back seat with him with my husband driving so that I can immediately correct any reactions to dogs we pass.  He now understands that I'm in control in the house and I've got his back.  He gets this now on walks too and understands that he cannot react to any dog or he will be corrected....and rewarded when he stays calm.  We are going to try to replicate the same situation on Thursday with another dog that my trainer is going to bring.  We're hoping that this will be a valuable "teaching session" for him.  I have not reached the point yet where I want to consider meds.  My trainer still believes that the behavior is controllable with more focused work.  When I think back to this time last year, he was totally out of control.  He was trying to attack joggers that passed us in the park and I could barely hold him back if he saw another dog.  He was a "brat" in the house, and was always trying to take over.  He has come a very long way, and I'm proud of him for working very hard for this past year.  I really think we'll get there.  I just have to keep focused and continually expose him to new things so that he CAN learn.  That's not to say that at some point I may decide that meds are necessary....but right now I'm just not there.  Thanks for your advice and help.  I sometimes get discouraged, and everyone's advice and support keeps my motivation up.

[Carol Brand]

Have you thought about crating him in the car?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Yes, but our trainer thinks that he would still react even though he's in the crate and what we want to do is prevent the reaction all together.  We're thinking it's best if we can actually "catch" him reacting....correct...and reward if he stays calm.  With Murph if you repeat this enough he eventually "gets it".  There are times of day (morning and when people get home from work) where there are lots of neighbors out walking their dogs.....so if we drive around during that time we should have plenty of opportunities for practice.

[Carol Brand]

I think that is a great plan as long as you have the flexibility to have two people:  one to drive and one to train.  Sadly, as you know, every time you have to throw him the car by yourself and he gets reactive, you will have a training set back.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I know....if that does happen I'll pull right over and correct. It's not as instantaneous as if I'm in the back seat with him, but he doesn't stop reacting until the dog is totally out of sight, so he'll still be able to understand WHY he's getting the correction.  I just won't take him alone on any roads where I wouldn't be able to pull over.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Thought about you all day today, Jane.  I thought about this discussion.

We had a great day today. We went to a park to hike, we rode in a car and did all the things I just take for granted now.  Not a year ago.  No way could we walk and be petted in a park. Heck we could not get there in the car without a complete meltdown.

What I keep thinking is these dogs are still puppies.  Under two years old, look how far they have come.  For you ( not so much me) all these pieces are there but the maturity is not.

For a silly example--you have a really smart baby but even a smart baby at 1 year old can't be potty trained.  It is just not possible.  So, for these young and immature dogs, we keep training them, but have not yet seen all the success.

It is all there, and like fine wine, it will get better with age.

Just my thoughts.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Jane, I am so sorry that Murphy has had this setback, but I am sure you WILL conquer it.  You ARE my training hero.  I am inspired by your dedication and hard work and that you place their behavior right up at the  top of your priority list. I am embarrassed that I have not worked with my guys like I should and then wonder why they aren't behaving.  Murphy is very, very lucky that you are his owner and that you are dedicated to helping him be as awesome as he can be.  I am so sorry for Guinness who probably doesn't even understand why Murphy attacked him.  When you have multiple dogs who are a size mismatch, disagreements are always a concern.  Luckily for me my smaller dog is more dominant.

[Jennifer and Jack]

You are doing a great job. I am not looking at it as a set back but rather another chance for Murphy to learn in a new situation.

 

I don't have any advice, just lots of love

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Jane, I never get sick of hearing about Murphy and your training challenges & successes.  Murphy is so lucky to have you.  I know it's a heartbreak but stay with it.  It's a setback but not the end of the story.  He's come so far because of your hard work.  Thank you for sharing.  Hugs to all of you...a double hug for Guiness!

[BG and Gavin]

Oh Jane, I am so sorry for this setback.  It must indeed be discouraging.  Hearing of the issues that you are having as well as Joanne and others make me think of the saying "you don't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need."  I am glad that the doodle gods did not have such a difficult challenge for me as a first time owner.  So maybe we not only get the doodles we need, but the doodles get the owners they need.  Many others would have given up on Murph by now.  He is lucky to have you and your DH who appears to support you unconditionally in your work with the boys.  And maybe this is part of Murphy's purpose for you.  Hugs to you all.