Winston's panic episodes (or seizures?)

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Starting a new discussion to make it clear that the mouse is no longer the prime suspect in Winston's saga. He's at the ER where he's been since early this afternoon, being observed for what I can only believe is some sort of neurological issue.

His 'fits' start with with him suddenly bolting upright, a bit of drool falls out of his mouth, and then he starts wailing and flailing around, jumps on something (couch, bed, etc) pees and poops, and then sits there shaking and crying. Then suddenly, it clears up and it's as if it never happened. For the one he had first thing this morning we were heading out the door for a walk and it started. He ran down the hall, down the stairs and outside to the car, and begged me to let him in the car where I guess he feels safe (that's when I took off to my friends place, thinking if it was a mouse it wouldn't happen there, but sure enough, it did, and so off the the ER we went).  I am just so thankful it didn't happen while I was driving!

I think I will go pick him up in the morning and bring him to my vet's office which opens at 7am. They are not looking after him very well there, nobody knows what's going on, nobody is sharing information with each other. They didn't know about his food trial even though I told them when I admitted him and again over the phone. They didn't know he needed his thyroid medicine. Nobody in the back knew I was in the visitor room waiting to see Winston. I had to go knock on doors.  When I finally saw him he was still covered in his pee and poop and nobody had cleaned him or treated him yet. No blood tests were taken.

They told me the reason they haven't cleaned him yet is because he was nervous around them. That is impossible because there isn't a living, breathing, thing on earth that Winston doesn't adore. They didn't understand the seriousness at all. They just chalked it up to a nervous dog and a nervous owner. I explained, again, that he is not a nervous dog, and has never shown fear before, ever. Nothing startles him, bothers him or upsets him in any way, ever. I think they finally got it but how frustrating??? So in total I waited three hours, and maybe got about 20 minutes with him before he had another episode and they took him back to give him some valium. I waited for the vet to come talk to me and finally had to go knocking on doors again and it seemed nobody knew I was still there. Meanwhile the whole time I was sitting in that room, it turned out Winston was right on the other side of the wall. All someone had to do was bring him through the door. They promised a real live vet would call with a full update first thing in the morning.

Unfortunately the saddest news is that they have no idea what it is, and said they have never seen anything like this before. I asked them what the point was of me leaving him there if nobody was going to tend to him or treat him in any way. They reassured me they were watching him closely and that it was the only way for them to get a sense of what is wrong.

I'm thinking I will get him out of there in the morning and for now, at least he's spending the night with a doctor, so if something bad happens then he will be looked after. But if the issue is fear and fear only I sure wish I could be there with him. I hate the thought of him having these episodes with nobody there to comfort him. :(

I'm sure there's a gazillion spelling errors here, sorry but I'm so tired...

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

ok. No more thyroid till tomorrow when I speak to my vet.

He had another episode while I was on my way to see him. :( He wasn't bathed but he is now. He is reclining on my bed. He is either really nervous or really itchy because he is licking and biting and chewing himself all over.

From now on when he starts to look really nervous I'm going to do obedience with him to distract him in the hopes of avoiding more episodes.

The vet is convinced he is having anxiety attacks to some sort of change and referred me to a behaviourist. I asked for a referral to a neurologist. Funny, the closest one is at the same hospital where I'm going to take him to do his skin scratch test. It's a three hour drive from here.

I made them give me copies of all the records, and then I walked out without paying. I told them I would call later.

phew. I'm just going to relax a bit until I can gather my thoughts.

Also, is it a good idea to take him to the fenced in dog park where he can work off some energy? That could either be really great, or potentially really  bad if he freaks out and scares the other dogs and owners. :(

[F, Calla & Luca]

I wouldn't take him to the dog park now. Too many unknowns if he should have an attack. You could try walking him, alone, somewhere relatively safe, large park?, on leash so you have some control, or just let him rest.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

she also recommended I get some sort of scented pheramone thing like a glade plug in that will help him calm down...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's no way they could know that his thyroid levels are normal from a blood test they can run there themselves and have results that fast. They can only measure T3 or T4, I forget which. They need to run a full panel (which has to sent out and takes 10-14 days to get results) to accurately diagnose or rule out a thyroid issue.

I just got back from JD's new specialist and had to check in here to see what's going on with Winston. I was hoping for better/clearer news.:(

[F, Calla & Luca]

I think they may have gotten the results from the blood that was drawn last week. And while it's true the whole panel gives the best picture you could get some rough idea from just a level. I do think that since none of us are vets we should let Sherri's vet review the whole thing.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Agreed.

[Christine & Camus]

Hi Sherri,  I am so sorry to hear that Winston is having such a difficult time.  I did some research on Thyroid testing for Camus.  Below is pricing information on thyroid testing from Dr. Dodd.  She has a research program, accepts blood samples by mail and the prices are really good (at least in my experience). The website is www.hemopet.org/.

Thyroid Profile 5 PLUS (T4, Free T4, T3, Free T3, TGAA - PLUS CBC, Differential,  Chemistries) ****IMPORTANT*** If on thyroid meds draw blood 4 - 6 hours after med and note dosage and hours here ===> DOSE: ______mg; HOURS: ______	$125.00
Thyroid Profile 5 (T4, Free T4, T3, Free T3) ****IMPORTANT*** If on thyroid meds draw blood 4 - 6 hours after med and note dosage and hours here ===> DOSE: ______mg; HOURS: ______	$75.00
Thyroid Profile 4 PLUS (T4, Free T4, T3, Free T3 - PLUS CBC, Differential,  Chemistries) ****IMPORTANT*** If on thyroid meds draw blood 4 - 6 hours after med and note dosage and hours here ===> DOSE: ______mg; HOURS: ______	$115.00
Thyroid Profile 4 (T3 and T4, Free T3 and T4) ****IMPORTANT*** If on thyroid meds draw blood 4 - 6 hours after med and note dosage and hours here ===> DOSE: ______mg; HOURS: ______	$64.00

Dr. Dodds, DVM

HEMOPET

11561 Salinaz Avenue

Garden Grove, CA 92843

I hope Winston feels better soon.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Thanks for sharing this. I don't think the prices are that much different than my vet's clinic. I paid about $86 including tax for the full T4 panel. I'm curious about what the T3, TGAA, and some of the other stuff is.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Thyroid testing can get complicated. T3 and T4 are forms of thyroid hormones and are both bound to protein and fee. Then there are autoimmune thyroid diseases and TGAA tests for these antibodies. But not all of the tests are necessary all of the time.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is the best explanation I've found. Also note the reference to a high percentage of dogs with hyporthyroidism having skin diseases or conditions.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/hypothyroidism.html

[Amy and Lily]

Sherri,  I would recommend that you try and get this attack/episode on a video.  It sounds odd to do this but this may help the Dr's make a better diagnosis.  Thinking of your family...

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

that would be great but holding up a video camera while he is in agony will only alienate him even more. I wish someone were here with me. :(