Why Grain Free?

[Pam & Trixie]

I emailed Fromm to tell them about switching to their brand for our picky eater Trixie...I told them I liked  the idea of rotation & also to tell them how much she loves the new Grain free Game Bird flavor.

I also asked them for more information about Grain free foods. This is what they said:

"The grain-free recipes were designed for dogs that have either allergies to grains or have special caloric, protein, or fat needs for their high metabolism or activity levels. If used for a regular household dog with average activity levels there is tendency for weight gain. Used in a rotation with our other Four Star recipes seem to work the best for the average, normal given healthy dog."

While Trixie definately doesnt have a weight issue -except being a bit under weight.  So adding some weight on her would be good.  Shes an active dog. But I wouldnt call her real active.

For those that feed Grain free only - why do you feed it to them? Was it one of the above issues Fromm mentioned?

 

Im not sure if I could get her to eat a Non Grain free food- they way she turns her nose up at everything now but this new flavor.

 

For now Im not worried about her eating all grain free...But at some point it may be an issue....

And I am curious about why others feed grain free.

 

Do others agree with what Fromm said- That rotation between grain free & not grain free is best?

[Katie, John & Parker pup]

I started Parker out on the healthy grains dog foods but his poops were just too soft all the time and he pooped like 5 times a day! I switched him to grain free and his poops are much more healthy and normal looking and he only poops twice a day! So far there hasn't been any irregular weight gain for him since he's still a baby at 1 and still growing a bit...I consider him skinny looking when he's groomed and the vet said he's the perfect weight for his size! I don't consider Parker a SUPER active either and seems to be fine!

[BG and Gavin]

I feed grain free for the following reasons:

- less filler equals a smaller stool

- I have a thin dog who is not a big eater and want to get the most nutrition into him that I can

- he is quite active

- it is as economical as a good grain food because you feed less

- it was what I put him on after puppy food and he does so well, I don't want to experiment with anything else

[Pam & Trixie]

Thanks Katie & Bruce Girl.

 

Yes the smaller feedings of grain free I was wondering about when I started Trixie on the grain free.

Trixie before had been offered 1 cup 2 times a day.  She usually ate 1 cup a day...So I cut that back to 3/4 c 2 times a day.

But the real problem it seems was she did not like her old food.   feeding her too big of a meal wasnt the problem(she is 1 year 43.8# at the vet today)  for many months she weighed 48# ...So she has lost alot of weight ; (

I  was feeding her 1 cup 2 times a day with the newer Fromms that she likes.  With the Game bird grain free...I am feeding her 1.5 cups 2 times a day...She asks for more even after that!

 

(we dont give treats- except a small treat when I call her in)

 

Does this seem ok for now?   Opinions...

[BG and Gavin]

I think what you need to do is look at the number of calories per cup of each of the specific foods.  It seems like she needs for calories than the one cup a day she was eating in order to gain some weight.  I would judge that way.  Do not overfeed the grain free just because she wants more, as it may be quite calorie dense.  Use green beans mixed in for a bit of filler if Trixie is still hungry.

[Pam & Trixie]

Wow, Her new food does have alot more calories:

Here was the chart for the Puppy food she was eating: 348 kcal/cup

Recommended 40-60# dog 3-4 cups a day

And her current Fromm food: 417.25 kcal/cup

30-50# dog 2 1/4-3 cups a day

 

I am feeding her more...but I dont give her more food when she asks for it.

 

We tried green beans & she spit them out...In fact I forgot they are still in the fridge! ugh  I forgot they were in there.  LOL :O

 

Im not sure what else to try as a filler...Her stomach can get upset easily.

 

 

[Katie, John & Parker pup]

lol! Parker loves his veggies and fruits (he has rarely spit something out! haha)...cucumber, carrots, watermelon, green beans, cranberries, etc. Maybe try another veg like canned carrots or something...they are a little sweeter and maybe your fussy eater will like them better? I am not nutritionally qualified though....just know what Parker likes!

[Pam & Trixie]

Yeah, Its pretty funny how she will spit things out...She can pick out the 'better kibble' in a mixed bowl- even when the kibble is the same size!

My other dogs were huge piglets.  One thought every piece of Celery was for her!

They loved anything & everything we feed them.

its very wierd to have a picky eater after 30 years...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I started feeding a grain-free diet on the recommendation of JD's allergy specialist. Jack does not have a grain allergy per se, but he is allergic to cereal mites (also known as storage mites), which live in the particulate matter of grain-based foods, and grain-free foods are less likely to contain those. Grain-free foods tend to have higher fat levels, which is beneficial for dogs, and may also have better Omega 6:3 ratios, especially if they are fish-based. I also believe that dogs need higher protein levels than those found in most foods that contain grains.

I also agree with the others that grain-free foods produce less stool volume and firmer stool. This was confirmed recently by JD's new internal medicine specialist. Because he now has to be on a restricted diet that is low in protein and high in carbs, we are adding fresh chicken to his meals to bring up the protein levels and reduce the carb percentage. The minute we switched him from his high-protein Orijen to the low protein LID food, his stool volume tripled and the stool also became soft. The new IMS confirmed that dogs really don't need much carbohydrate in their diets.

I love Fromm Family Foods as a company, but as far as weight gain on a grain-free diet goes, I disagree with them. Higher protein levels do not cause weight gain. Carbohydrate and Protein are exactly the same in terms of calories by volume, 4 k/cal per gram. Fat of course contains more than twice the calories of protein or carbohydrate. Calories are calories, regardless of their source. Since grain-free foods and higher protein foods are usually (but not always) more calorie dense than foods that contain grains or foods that are high in carbohydrates, you usually feed less.  If you pay attention to the calorie content of the food and feed the proper amount, the macronutrient content should not make a difference in terms of weight gain.

Which brings us to another point, which Linda touched on. Dogs who are "chowhounds", those who are always looking for food and eat whenever they get a chance, may do bvetter with a food that contains grains, simply because they get more of it and the carbohydrate content helps fill them up. Conversely, dogs with slight appetites and picky dogs may do better with a higher calorie grain-free formula, simply because they don't have to eat as much to be well-nourished.

 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Good points.

[Christine & Camus]

Karen,  How does a kibble Like Natural Balance that has potato or sweet potato play out.  Food sensitivities aside, does the potato content help dogs who are chow hounds?  Does the lower protein content hurt in the long term?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's not the potato that's the problem so much as the amount of potato. It's the first ingredient, and that's not good, IMO. I can't imagine any reason they would do that except to make it cheaper. But the macronutrient percentages do approximate the ones in the Rx hypoallergenic foods so that may be another reason for the way it's formulated.

That's what JD is on now, Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato and Chicken. It makes me very unhappy, but it's that or Rx food, and so we're supplementing with fresh chicken.

I don't know that having that much carbohydrate in any form, whether potato or grain, is beneficial for any dog, even chow hounds. In humans, higher protein percentages in the diet sustain blood sugar levels for a longer period, which helps  keep us from feeling hungry, and dogs don't need carbohydrate anywhere near as much as we do. But dogs don't digest carbohydrate as easily as we do, so maybe that helps keep them feeling fuller longer.

It's so hard to find reference materials for questions about how much of a dog's diet should ideally be composed of protein. They can live on a fairly low percentage, but what is essential to sustain life and what produces optimum health are very different things, lol. I don't know that a 20% protein level hurts a dog, exactly, but my own opinion is that it probably doesn't help them stay as healthy as they might be.

[Christine & Camus]

Thanks Karen.  Your answer really clarifies the kibble issue for me.  If I continue with Natural balance I'll start adding protein.