Help with recall

[Heather Martinez]

I am having trouble with Teddy's recall. He is good if he's in a training session, for example I will take him to the park and have him off leash, where I will put him in a down stay and then call him and he'll come to me. He will stay and let me walk away and he will go from sit to down with me standing 20 feet away.

The problem is when I release him to play and run around, or throw a ball for him to retrieve, or if he's playing with other dogs, suddenly his training goes out the window and he won't lie down and stay or come when I call. He'll play keep away with the ball, or just grab a stick and play keep away with that. It takes me forever to get him to either come to me or lie down so I can catch him.

If I call Teddy in a situation where he is running up to a person or too close to the boundary of where he's allowed to play in the park, he will come toward me, but not to me. He'll also listen to the command "LEAVE IT" and will not go up to a person if I give the command. So he is capable of listening, just not good enough.

I know that it's a good idea to put him on a long line and then pull him if he doesn't come to me, but the problem is he grabs the long line in his mouth and plays keep away with that! I've tried grabbing him and saying "NO, you COME!" in a stern voice when I finally catch him, but it doesn't seem to help. He also doesn't seem to notice if I put him back on leash as a punishment, he does the same thing again the next time. I normally do not use treats in training, just praise, and in a training session he will come to me for either one, but once he is playing keep away he won't come to me regardless of whether I have a treat, although he will sometimes come to me to trade whatever toy/stick he has for a better toy.

I am hoping to find some ideas. My trainer has recommended the long line and it just isn't working. Also, Teddy does not bite the leash around the trainer, so it makes it hard for him to offer suggestions. I am at the point of considering a shock collar (with the trainer to show us how to use it), because the park where Teddy plays is not completely fenced and I need him to have good recall for his own safety. Note that Teddy is 14 months old.

Any ideas are appreciated!!

[BG and Gavin]

It sounds like he just is not ready for THAT high of a distraction level.  I would take him to a less distracted area (fenced in yard, park without other dogs, no balls etc) and play hide and go seek.  As soon as he walks ahead of you duck behind a tree.  When he notices you are gone, he will come and find you and then he will keep a better eye on you.  Reward him with verbal praise when he looks back or checks in with you.  You can start out by playing this game in the house.  I throw a ball down the hallway and hide in another room and he comes to find me.  I let Gavin play with a dog after training tonight and after a little bit I stood close by and called him - when he looked up at me I immediately grabbed the leash and began walking with him and gave tons of praise.  I did not want to give him the opportunity to practice a bad behaviour (not coming).  This is also one of the reason's I don't take him to the dog park - I am not 100 percent confident he will come under such high distraction.   Another thing, when he is playing off leash I get him to come to me a few times then release him to run some more.  When I re-leash him I never call him to me - I generally squat down or start walking the other way and he will come to check me out..  I just don't want  "come" to mean that the party is over.

[Sandra Griffith]

In addition to what BruceGirl said, I would attach the leash each time you call him to you and then undo the leash each time you release him to play again. Vary the number of times that you do this so that they do not figure out that the third time means play is over. Sometimes call him 5 times, sometimes, 3 times, sometimes, 10 times for example. Many people inadvertently cue their dogs that the leash coming out or being attached means play is ending. Another thing that is good to get your dog used to is having their collar grabbed. To get him used to this, call him to you (in a low distraction environment like home), grab his collar as you give him a yummy treat. If he shies away from your hand start slower. This might mean just touching his collar whilst giving the treat or in extreme cases just reaching towards him. You want him to think that your grabbing his collar means something yummy is in the offing. Keep working on this until he is comfortable with you grabbing his collar quite roughly. You never know when you might have to grab him in a situation and it is important for him to not be freaked out by this. Hope this helps..

[Adina P]

How long is the long line you use?  Where are you in relation to the handle or the end of the line when you call him (i.e. are you FAR from the line's end and is he close to the line's end?)?

[Heather Martinez]

Yes, that is right, we are each at one end of the line as far as the length of the line goes (about 15 feet I think).

[Cathy w/Shiloh~Cody]

A big No-No is to reprimand a dog who has run off and finally come back, or if you have finally caught him. Doing this is teaching your dog quite the opposite. It's teaching him NOT to come back. You mentioned that when you grabbed him you said "No, you come" Dogs are all about the moment, and whatever they are doing at the moment you punish them is what they relate to as being the crime. In this case, they will think it's coming back.  A dog needs to be corrected at the moment the bad behavior is being performed. They do not have the mind set to reason with the logic of not running away to prevent the punishment. To a dog, it's all about the moment. It sounds like you chasing him has turned into a game and a reward for him as he enjoys it. There is too much stimulation to work on a concrete "come" where you are, example around other dogs. Go back to a quiet yard and keep working on it there-make sessions short and often-maybe giving him a treat, praise or a rub each time he comes, and keep working on him taking you serious. I am passing on this info that a trainer gave me when I had some trouble with my dog thinking I was just his playmate and not his leader, Good Luck!!

[Suzann, Rosey & Bandit]

I would recommend studying positive reinforcement training for recall. There are 3 "D"s distance, duration and distraction. You work up to higher levels of each for commands. Definitely don't reprimand him when he does come back because that will negatively associate his coming to you. Recall is one of the hardest...keep at it and he will get better!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

You mention that Teddy will not bite the leash around the trainer.....what is the trainer doing that you aren't?  Will Teddy come for the trainer on (or off) the long line consistently?  If that's the case, but he won't come to you, then I'd say he does understand the expectation.....there just isn't enough motivation.  Initially there were a number of things that my Doods would do well for the trainer....but not for us.  There were a lot of reasons for that, and many of them were very subtle.  The trainer was always unemotional, calm, and consistent....we wern't.  Getting a handle on this was extremely helpful to us.  We did use a long line for our initial recall training....we started with 15 ft and then went to the longest one we could find.  During this phase of training we never allowed them to be off leash without the long line.....so they couldn't practice "flipping us off" when we called them.  Although we didn't use treats for most of our training, we did for recall.  If the dog came to us on the first "come" command, they got a treat.  If not, we would reel them in and put them in a sit.  No treat, but also no correction.  I do recalls all day, every day in the house.  That's to make it "second nature".  We worked our way up to difficult distractions, and tried to control their excitement at the beginning.....no balls while on the long line until they really "got it".  Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

[Heather Martinez]

Thanks for the replies everyone! This is very helpful and I have a lot of things to try. Yesterday I started by letting him off leash and when he started running around I walked away. When he came to me I gave him a treat. 

The trainer is very consistent and Teddy tries so hard to perform well for him. I definitely need to be more consistent and not let him get away with misbehavior. 

I am making note of all the ideas and I will try working on them every day in the house and when we go to the park at night with not other dogs around. 

[Moe]

When we practice come I have her come very close and I hold her collar and move it around a few times before I release her. It is not just come near me, it is come and I'm going to touch your collar every time. I think it really helps.