Shy/scared of strangers (not dogs)

[Julie & Wrigley]

Hey everyone,

Our Labradoodle, Wrigley, is almost 2 years old. He's is incredibly loving, playful and great with dogs of all sizes. But, he's extremely shy/scared of strangers (men, women, children etc.) He's not aggressive, he doesn't lunge/try to bite. When someone wants to pet him, stops to talk with me on a walk or comes in our house, he barks and runs away scared. We've had 2 private dog trainers, multiple group classes. We got him at 12 weeks (late, I know) and he's constantly around people/dogs. He's a LOT better from the beginning, he barks less and warms up quicker, but we're still not where we need to be. He's not extremely food motivated - so when we ask people/strangers to give him a treat (without looking him in the eyes, etc.) he doesn't take it right away. He circles them, and 30 seconds later, decides (maybe) to reach for it.

I'm about to hire another trainer to try some new methods (no choke collars or anything) but before I do, I wanted to know if anyone else has similar issues with their doodle. I've read this is common with Labradoodles and our friend's doodle acts pretty much the same.I've read a bunch of posts on here for the past 2 years or so and have tried many of them.

Any tips, feedback or suggestions are welcome!

Thank you!!

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I don't know that this is necessarily common with doodles and think that it varies from dog to dog.  My one dog, Cubbie, loves people and willingly goes up to anyone we meet outside.  Ollie, on the other hand, it a lot more cautious around strangers and has to warm up to them before he will approach them.  We adopted Ollie this past summer though when he was almost 2 so, we aren't 100% sure as to what may have caused this.  

I would say to keep working with the trainer, but I wouldn't force him to go up to strangers if he isn't comfortable.  You don't want to put him in the position where there would be any fear based aggression (even though he hasn't been aggressive yet).  If a dog gets too uncomfortable in a certain situation, there is no guarantee as to how they will react.  Keep us posted and let us know how it goes.

[Adina P]

No, I would NOT say this is common with labradoodles.  I've had three and all of them have been at least friendly if not OVERLY so.  I think a shy, scared-of-people labradoodle is the exception. 

Can you say a bit about what the last trainers had you work on?  What was involved in the previous training that didn't work?  How good is his obedience -- does he readily obey commands the FIRST time you say them in public? 
What do you hope to gain from training?  What do you expect training CAN do?
What if he just never LOVES people but is tolerant of them?

[Julie & Wrigley]

Maybe the trainers I've worked with are just generalizing. They've both worked with shy labradoodles like mine so at least we're not alone! It's not that the last training didn't work, we just need more. We've done things like give him treats when we pass people (to just reinforce it's ok for them to pass), have strangers give him treats (without making eye contacts, movements etc.), have him sit when we're talking to people and treat him when he's still/quiet. Have people come over to our house, treat him, not look at him etc. He does warm up, come over, take food from them and eventually even sit near them and let them pet him. I don't need him to LOVE people, just tolerate them without barking out of shyness/fear. He does listen very well outside to us - sit, stay home (unless he sees a dog and his concentration is broken. We're still working on that. He loves dogs so much he just wants to play with and greet everyone one he sees.The issue with having strangers treat him on walks etc. is that he doesn't take food right away so the people have to be willing to stop, listen to my instructions, then wait for Wrigley to take it.

I know he wants to like people, when they don't pay attention and just walk by he turns as if to follow/sniff them and his tail is up so he's not completely terrified all the time.

He also does this thing where 1 out of 10 people he really likes and wants to follow. If I let him get close enough to try to say hi, he is great until the last second then he starts doing the doodle bounce/prance thing and barks (tail wagging) as if to get the person to chase him/play. As soon as the person moves to pet him, he retreats, scared. But if they just smile/laugh he's fine. Of course I don't condone that behavior since I don't want him doing that.

[Adina P]

My typical response to any issue is obedience training.  And this is no exception.  It sounds like you've got a start in obedience training since, but he's not 'finished'.  Finished would mean that he would hold a sit stay, down stay, stand stay while someone approached and touched him/petted him.  It means he'd come to you even if people were in the way or there were dogs around.  It would mean he would heel on a walk even if he passed other dogs (that means walking right at your side without pulling or leaving his heel position), etc.  Quite often working on obedience where there are black and white rules while the tempting or scary or uncomfortable (but not dangerous or actually harmful) stuff is going on around him or near him usually helps him cope with the tempting/scary thing because his mind if focused on a task.   Of course such work would start with minor temptations/scary things and working up--not dumping a hyper dog loving toddler on him the first time ;-)   This kind of work usually does more good than simply trying to get him to like people more.

You also mentioned he barks.  Can you describe how he reacts in various scenarios so we can really picture it? 

I don't have an answer for you that will fix the fear, but I do believe strongly that focused obedience training (where superb on and off leash obedience is the goal) often has amazing 'side effects' like reduced fear and greater tolerance of what were once scary things.

[Adina P]

And yeah, I bet the trainers were probably just generalizing from their experience.  They may have had a disproportionate number of shy labradoodles--but in general labs are pretty friendly and so are poodles (though perhaps more of them might be a little aloof than labs).

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I agree here.  How many times to does a person seek out a trainer when everything is going fine?  typically you take your obedience courses but then contact a trainer again when there is a problem.  I that a lot of times trainers are like doctors; you don't go to see them unless there is a problem.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Putting trainers and shy stereotypes aside, why do people have to touch her or why do you think others need to touch her? Just something to consider.
With my shy girl, once I realized she really did not want to be the meeter/ greater we did just fine. What I did ask of her was to stay in a heel at my side and not back away.
Something else I learned from my acceptance of her shy behavior, most humans don't want to give your dog a smelly meaty treat either or always want to pet your dog when asked. :)
Just tell strangers your doodle does not like to get pets and leave it at that. You mentioned the dog does eventually warm up to the stranger. That's a good thing.

[Adina P]

Definitely a good point and one I was hinting at.  Not all dogs like being pet by strangers. That is okay.  Of course if she's trying to put up a front by barking, etc...that must be dealt with.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

When someone wants to pet him, stops to talk with me on a walk or comes in our house, he barks and runs away scared.  It sounds like this is the only way that Wrigley is demonstrating his "shyness" with people.  I agree that continuing obedience training is really important.  I assume he's on a leash when you meet strangers on walks, so can't you just put him in a sit/stay?  If he barks, I would correct that behavior.  If he's sitting calmly, I would suggest that YOU give him the treat, since he's doing what YOU asked him to do.  Just think of the stranger as a "distraction".  When you have people come into your home, I would also leash him so that he can't run away barking.  Again, I'd put him in a sit/stay while you greet your company.  IMO you need to tell him WHAT you want him to do in place of the barking and retreating....and reward him when he does it.  He may never really love people that he doesn't know, but you will be doing him a great favor if you train him how he can react calmly by obeying your commands.

[Julie & Wrigley]

Thanks everyone! To clarify - he does not need to get pet. I just want him to not bark/freak out when someone approaches to pet him or just say hi to me on a walk. I just don't want to have to worry everytime someone approaches that he'll bark at them. Sometimes I don't even have a chacne to tell people that he doesn't like to get pet. I know he's not aggressive, but when he barks others don't know that and I just don't want him to scare anyone. We will work on our obidience training :)

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Okay, having been in similar situations, I 'll say Jane gave the Best advice. In this order: heel- sit-stay. Remember only that, enforce only that, and you are half way there!
The dog must remain by your side and successfully do those commands. The dog can't back up and run, can't go forward and bark.
Be consistant with this concept. No ifs! No matter what is going on. Heel- sit - stay is your friend :)

[Adina P]

In the meantime, prepare yourself mentally to take the initiative and block the path of anyone looking like they want to approach him. Prepare a short phrase to say to them to be polite: "I'm sorry, but Wrigley is afraid of strangers and in training."  or whatever you can say quickly so people will move along and not linger.  Now if it's your friends, just let them know to ignore him.