McGee bit somebody today.

[Donnie]

Current situation: Renting a place near the beach for the summer, got up early and took McGee over for his first ever beach trip this morning. He was on leash, pulling around and sniffing everything. (He's never been outstanding on leash, which is my fault because I've never really worked him consistently at it, but it's been getting better lately.)  So a guy hollers over from down the beach about how beautiful McGee is and can he pet him? I said yes because McGee has always just loved people, although very jumpy and excited and not very good mannered when he meets them. So McGee is pulling hard against the leash trying to get to the guy, I'm fighting the leash trying to get him under some kind of control before they get there but soon as the guy gets there he reaches out and McGee growls and snaps the guy's hand and got him.  Don't think it was too bad but it was a bite.

Background: McGee is 3 years old, but was never socialized as a puppy. Got him at 8 weeks, but it was just me and him, never had any other dogs around and never got meet/play with any.  Now I pretty much keep him away from other dogs because it's just an unpredictable situation and I'm not sure how to handle it.  He's also been mouthy when we play (my fault), but we're getting better about that too (I think).  He seems to be much more reactive on leash, or when there's a fence between him and another dog, but because of that he doesn't get off leash.  The couple of times he's been around other dogs off leash went better than on leash, but there were still some reactions (not sure if it was aggression or just hey leave me alone you give me bad vibes).  And the people next door's dog came over to greet McGee at the fence last week and McGee just started growling a barking, so their dog bares teeth and does it back (and I didn't blame her at all, I would have too).  The lady next door called it 'stall courage' and something she'd seen in horses, but I've never heard of it.

So our issues seem to have a lot to do with the leash or fence.  Because the incident this morning happened when he was really pulling at the leash, and a couple of times lately he has been standing up on hind legs on a fence across from somebody and they reach over to pet him and he has snapped at them.  I don't think those were as aggressive as today, but it was still mouth to hand. But last week we were out in the fenced in back yard off leash and a neighbor came in and McGee did his usual jump on you hey it's great to see you but no growling or snapping or anything.

I know (or at least am pretty sure) he's not a mean dog, and I think he wants to play with other dogs because off leash I've seen him do the play bow, chase me/chase you type behavior, but when he gets close he gets real nervous because he doesn't really know what he should do, which I think feeds into a reactive cycle.

Sorry for the ramble, wanted to make sure I got all the info in there.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I suspect I'm a lot older than you and I learn things everyday. I don't believe it's possible to know everything even in limited areas.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Regarding McGee's getting "mouthy" when you play, this usually happens when a person (almost always a man) uses his hands as toys, actually encouraging the dog to try to grab them or something he is holding, and/or plays wrestling games with the dog. That has to stop, it is not "playing", it is teaching a dog to bite.

Holding something up over the dog out of reach and encouraging him to try to get it is not "playing", either. That's teaching a dog to jump up. You do not want a dog to jump up, ever, except in athletic activities such as agility or going up to catch a ball or a frisbie. And even then, you don't encourage them to jump up and grab something from your hand.

Play fetch instead. Play with stuffed toys, hide-a-squirrels, puzzles, frisbees, whatever, but not with hands. If a dog brings you a ball or a toy to throw for him, you wait until he has put it down. You never wrestle it out of his mouth. If he doesn't drop the ball, you don't throw it.

And the minute the dog's teeth touch human skin, the game ends. The minute the dog jumps up on you, the game ends.

It is crucial that you get McGee into a good training program with an experienced trainer.

 

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

My Daisy is the sweetest girl, she loves children and babies beyond what we expected. She loves most people but she is fearful of some. We never know when this is going to happen so we always sit her, tell the person (if they want to) to NOT reach out over her head but under. Sometimes Daisy gets that big old eye look and I immediately stop the interaction.

We did socialize her, we trained and continue to do so, however we never ever trust her 100%. We had an aggressive dog (yes aggressive, would actually seek to bite) so we know what you experience.

We love our doodles but they are not perfect!

[Shannon and Finn]

I agree that it's time to get a trainer that will specialize in helping you through this. It also sounds like it would help to have better control on a leash so he won't be pulling you, dogs are very strong. I would work with a trainer on this too, maybe with a prong collar if he responds to it. Ask a trainer about how to use one effectively. I had a very sweet dog who had barrier aggression although it was very specific to protecting our kids when leashed or fenced. I had to learn to prevent and control him in those situations. Off leash he never had an issue but he was well socialized from the get go. Good luck and make some calls to a trainer today so you can both get through this happily!

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

You are not kidding they are strong, Bella, Daisy's true sibling but not mine, has no formal training....she weighs maybe 35lbs, she almost pulled me over last weekend when she saw my DH coming...and I am NO light weight.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

My vet said a dog's pulling force is at least three times his weight, and for breeds like Labs (who help pull boats in to shore!) it's higher.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

Donnie your experience sounds a little like mine but there are some key differences.  When we adopted Ollie last summer he was already 2 years old so we didn't have the opportunity to have any influence on him during his formative years but that would not be an excuse for me to let the problems continue now that he is our dog.  You really missed out on training and it is so much easier to train the correct response rather than having to break a bad behavior which is where you are now.  But with that said, if you put the time into it, you can get a handle on this.

Neither or my dogs is allowed to great a person while on leash until they are sitting.  Anytime someone comes up and asks to pet our dogs, I immediately stop walking and put the dogs into a sit.  I think that there was too much tension and excitement for McGee when he bit the guy on the beach.  On one end he had you tugging on his leash with failed attempts to control him and on the other end a stranger was quickly approaching him.  Since McGee has not been socialized you must alway always always have control over him before people can come up to him since it is now clear that you can't be sure of his reaction.  Ollie will do very well with strangers if I have time to put him in a sit/stay before the person gets too close.  If we are walking towards the other people and they start reaching for him, he will freak out and pull back on the leash and try to get away.  I think a big part of dealing with these issues is taking the time to watch and understand your dog and know what situations they can and cannot handle and work from there.  I know that Ollie is nervous around strangers, so every night during our walk, we take 5-10 minutes to just sit in the middle of a busy park where there is activity all around us because he needs to learn to be comfortable in situations like that.

Ollie is not allowed to great other dogs while on leash.  Not ever.  On yesterday's walk we had to walk past a little barking, growling dog that was on one of those stupid retractable leashes.  The dog was lunging at Ollie and Ollie was lunging back. It would have been soooo easy to turn and go another direction (and I really considered it), but that would not have taught him the correct behavior.  So instead I continued to walk closer to the dog (but stayed off to the side because I was NOT going to let them get too close because the other owner's thought it was so funny that their little dog was acting all tough -- stupid people).  I had treats in my pocket and used them to keep Ollie's attention on me.  Anytime he reacted to the other dog, we turned and walked further away and anytime he focused on me he got praise, a treat, and we continued walking.  It took us at least 5 minutes to get past that dog, but we did it and I felt good about that.  I know that we are going to have to continue with this but even a little bit of success is enough to give hope that we will work past this issue.  I do not want Ollie to be able to greet other dogs while on leash, I just want to be able to walk past them without issue. 

We also have fence aggression issues with Ollie.  There is a large chocolate lab that lives behind us and as soon as that dog comes outside Ollie would charge the fence while barking, growling, and snarling.  It was not good, but we are working on it.  Whenever we are out in the yard I always bring out a leash and as soon as the other dog comes outside, Ollie gets leashed up.  If he looks at the other dog and does not react, he gets a treat and we move closer.  We can now get all the way up to the fence with no reaction but as soon as I drop the leash he is back at the fence barking again.  I want to get him to the point where he can be out in the yard without a leash and not have any issues with the other dog, but it will probably take us a long time to get there. 

So all in all, you need to just put in the time and effort to get your dog to where he needs to be.  You have missed a lot of great training opportunities, but you are owning up to that which is great.  I just hope that you are ready to commit to putting in the work that is needed to get these issues corrected.  Since we are going through some of the same issues, feel free to message me or post more questions here and I can help you work through this the best you can.  Everyone here at DK will provide the support because we all just want to see McGee succeed. 

[Adina P]

And in the meantime, it is BETTER for you to turn and walk the other way than to allow McGee to pull you toward any person or animal.  I don't care how much you trust the person or McGee.  With what McGee has already demonstrated you will be risking both McGee's freedom and the other person or dog.  Don't worry about being rude...that's low on the priority list.  You can always practice a polite turn-down for all people you have to turn down until his sit-stay is solid enough to practice it around strangers. 

Also consider this.  Obedience training is about far more than a few parlor tricks.  Sit-stay and 'come' and other commands are wonderful, but they are not the only purpose of training.  The way you train and the time you work together has the power to create a majorly awesome relationship between you and your dog.  A relationship of trust and respect.  A relationship by which your dog learns that it can trust YOU to keep it safe and trust that when it obeys it has nothing to worry about...that life is actually BETTER when it obeys.  So you have to look at the big picture and find a trainer that really KNOWS this and isn't just teaching you a method of HOW TO get your dog to sit on command.  You can do that in your home...what you need is a way to teach your dog the importance of ALWAYS sitting when you tell it to sit...no matter who is about to pet it or what dog is 4 feet away, etc.

[Shannon and Finn]

It's true and a good point, even though we had a sweet dog it was better for me to never let any stranger pet him while he was leashed or on the other side of the fence.  If someone asked to pet him or "if he was nice" as they approached I just said no and that he got nervous on a leash.  It wasn't necessarily true but I was better safe then sorry.  I also would go on the other side of the street or turn the other way if the kids were with me.  We never had an issue until one time when we walked him with our son when he was a baby.  Someone approached with their hand out and his hair raised and he grumbled.  That taught me that I needed to be aware of that situation.  He was a huge dog and I am a very small person so a prong allowed me to keep him under control if he ever tried to bolt and I had a leash with a handle close to the collar so I could double up on my hold!  I knew him very well and could sense when he was nervous about someone approaching the kids even though we had a great relationship and he was obedient.

[Donnie]

We've done some training, I just never proofed it to stand up out in the 'real world'.  My family and others who know him and know enough about his excitability know to turn away and ignore him and he'll sit and wait for them to pet him, tho you can see him about to burst out of his fur. And if its a controlled enough environment where I can get between him and his focus he will sit, he's just not proofed thru any distraction hardly.  And everything's a distraction.  Since we moved down here a couple weeks ago I really started working on the leash walking and it's actually gotten a lot better, but at this point it's like his sit, he does pretty well when it's him and me, but add something else to the mix (like a first trip to the beach, or a leaf blowing down the road, or A PERSON THAT IS PAYING ATTENTION TO ME!!!) and forget it. So we're not starting from square one, but we do have a ways to go.

[Gail and Bailey]

Are you using a prong collar?

[Donnie]

Not at the moment. Our class leader did a good job (I think) of training me how to use it. I have one but made the decision not to use it if I wasn't that consistent with his training.

I've seen McGee pull and stand up on his hind legs against it if he sees somebody he really likes.