Murph's Visit With The Behaviorist

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I know most of you are well aware of Murphy's issues with dominance.  Today we had our visit with a Behaviorist, and I feel like it was incredibly worthwhile.  Here's a summary of our key "take aways".

• I've been referring to Murphy's problems as "dominance". They really aren't....it's aggression.  He is demonstrating two distinctly different types of aggression....fear based aggression and what they used to call "dominance aggression" but now refer to as communication breakdowns. I've been so reluctant to call him aggressive....but that IS what he is and I need to face that.
• This is genetic.  After completing a 10 page questionnaire which details Muphy's full history the Doctor feels there is nothing to indicate that there was any event in his life that would have caused this.  He is "hard wired" to behave this way.  She did say that while it is not common she has seen several male Standard Poodles with almost identical behavioral issues to Murphy.  She also said that this ALD "genetic background" presents lots of potential concerns (in her opinion).  The high energy of the Lab and Poodle, the super intelligence of the Poodle along with their high energy (and dominance in some males) and all  of the recent problems with aggression in Cocker Spaniels present concerns from a genetic perspective.
• She felt that all of the work we've done with Murphy has been exactly what he needed.  I was so relieved to hear that.  She agreed with the approach we have been using for training and felt that our trainer was guiding us appropriately.  Her feeling was that without all of this work he would have bitten and it could have been a serious attack. 
• He should never again be allowed to be with our grandchildren without a muzzle.  That was so hard to hear.  Thank heavens he has not bitten one of them.....but now I know that he could.
• That brings us to the concerns about how he is behaving with our son.  It happened again this morning.  My son started to walk into the room where I was and Murph jumped up and charged at him.  Again, my son was terrified.  The Doctor felt this was really serious.  Whenever I can't be right there to supervise his interactions with my son, he needs to be either crated, gated in my room or muzzled.  When I go to bed, Murph needs to be gated in my room so that he can't run into my DS during the night.  There have been episodes when I was asleep and our son got up to use the bathroom and Murph became territorial.  Isn't this all so sad?  I'm tearing up just writing it.
• For the next two weeks DH and I can give Murphy NO affection of any kind.  Everything good needs to come from our son.  He needs to feed him, treat him, and pet him.....only him.  He needs to start with a couple easy training commands or tricks, and treat, treat, treat.  Murph needs to view him as the "fun guy"....he still needs to respect him, but also feel bonded to him.  Right now there is no bond or respect.
• We are taking Murph to run off leash now three or four days a week and also giving him his hour walks.  She said he needs those walks but he also needs 30 minutes of a good cardiac work out every day.  So on the days we don't let him run we'll do the walks and then 30 minutes on the treadmill.
• I need to take him to our vet for a full thyroid panel.  Once she rules this out we will talk about the potential for medication.  She was talking about "doggie prozac".  She does not believe this will help with his dog aggressiveness but it would probably help with what's going on with our son.  She said she wants to think more about this because of the seizure side effects in some dogs (especially Labs and Poodles).  Most dogs display seizure disorders around five years, and Murph isn't yet three. If he has this propensity, the med could trigger a seizure.  She was concerned because he did have a seizure associated with a high fever previously....of course this is different from epilepsy, but it was still a little concerning for her.  We'll talk to her in two weeks and then decide on the med issue.
• That brings us to the dog aggression.  It is only on leash which she said is indicative of a dog who is fearful.  They sometimes feel "trapped"....like they are helpless and vulnerable.  I didn't understand how a dog who was dominant would also be fearful, but she said it is not at all inconsistent. 
• You may remember that we have moved from a choke collar to a gentle leader to a prong collar and now to an e collar.  Dogs like Murph often just become desensitized to their training tool.  They basically build up a tolerance and the corrections become meaningless.  We have to be very careful of this with the e collar, because after this there's nothing left.  We will need to walk him with both a prong and the e collar, and only give him the e collar correction in a severe situation.  For regular heeling, we'll use the prong.

So this is just a "drop in the bucket" of what we learned today.  Much of it was a reinforcement of what our trainer has taught us, but there was also lots of helpful and important new information.  We were with her for over two hours and I'm amazed with how much she was able to share in that time.  We know what we have to do in the short term, and I'll talk to her again in a couple of weeks to determine where we go next.  I always thought that we were dealing with a serious situation with Murphy, but I guess I really didn't fully understand how serious until today.  We will be buying our boy a muzzle....breaks my heart, but I have to keep everyone safe.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Jane, I feel so badly for you, because I know this is truly heartbreaking to hear about a dog you love and adore. I have said it before and I will say it again, Murphy hit the jackpot when your rescued him. Your hard work and dedication has made the difference for Murphy and I know you will do whatever you have to help him along this next journey. I am sending hugs your way.

[Carol and Banjo]

(((HUGS))))

[Diane, Hurley and Sidney]

Jane,

We don't really know each other but I have been keeping wither your posts concerning Murphy.  I am sending you lots of warm and caring hugs.   You continue to go through so much with Murphy.  He is very lucky that you love him as much as you do and that you have not given up.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Wow Jane, those are some really harsh things to accept. I am always in awe at how you handle Murphy with such grace and compassion and dedication. I am glad that you went to the behaviour specialist and got this advice, even if it was difficult to hear,.. heck, it was difficult for me to hear. It sounds like his advice will help you a lot. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make this all go away for you.

By the way, I haven't heard back from my friend about his dog and the medication. I know at the time I saw him about a year ago he had just started it and he said it helped, and his dog had even more serious issues, and had bitten a few people. Since I haven't heard back from him I can't say for sure what the end result was though. Wish I could have been more help, but I don't want to push him since I know it's a touchy subject for him.

[Bonnie and Kona]

Jane, You have done so much for all of us using this forum to keep us aware of training methods and options for well-loved dogs that are like Muphy. Your updates and training methods have been helpful regardless of our dog's temperaments. You have communicated the devotion we need to have to bring our dogs into our communities safely. I hope that this behaviorist is able to develop a treatment plan for Murphy that will work well. I know you and your DH love him. Hoping to hear good results with your son and Murphy, soon. Love to all of you.

[BG and Gavin]

My goodness Jane this was a great deal of information to take in.  I know you heard some tough things, but perspective is good.  When you are dealing with a difficult situation day to day you sometimes do not even realize how bad things really are.  Sounds like you have certainly hired the right expert though and it must bring a wee bit of comfort knowing you have been doing what is best all along.  Joanne has some really good advice I think about the muzzles in every room on the door knobs.

[Donna K & Quincy]

Jane, I'm sorry that you didn't get a more positive evaluation, I know how much you love Murphy and you have done everything that is humanly possible with his training. I know the muzzle is a hard pill to swallow, but not only will it keep everyone else safe, it will keep Murphy safe as well. I pray that your behaviourist comes up with a plan that works for all of you. Bless your son for being willing to work with Murphy. Sending big hugs, we are all pulling for you and Murphy.

[Leslie and Halas]

I'm sorry you have to go to these lengths, but I agree that it's what you have to do to keep everyone safe and keep Murphy out of trouble. It must at least be good to know that you've been trying the right things so far. My parents' husky had the dominance/fear thing. She was definitely dominant, but she generally liked other dogs. Unless she was on a leash. Then she seemed aggressive towards dogs that weren't on leash. We figured at the time that she felt trapped if she was on a leash and the other dog wasn't.
I hope Tim's working with Murph will help the situation.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thank you for sharing this with us Jane, I know it wasn't easy.

I'm so sorry that you are the one that has to be our "point man" on these kinds of issues, my friend, and even sorrier that you have to deal with this at all. My heart is breaking right along with yours right now, but I also believe that if anyone can make this better, you can. We're all here for you with hugs, support, admiration, and optimism...always optimism. Hang in there, kid.

 

 

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Jane, I've only seen your more recent posts about Murphy but I agree with what others have said, Murphy is so lucky to have you.  It's heartbreaking news, but you've made a difference in Murphy's life and I really hope there will be better days ahead. It sounds like between your trainer, the behaviorist, and your family, you've got a strong support system.  I admire you for the way you have approached this challenge, learning as much as you can and handling each obstacle with so much love, commitment and grace. Thank you for sharing this journey because what you're learning is helping a lot of us.  Hoping to hear good results with Murphy and your son.  I'm sending hugs and prayers your way.       

[Adina P]

That was some tough stuff to hear.  Labels aside, you now have some new tools and hopefully these will do the job.  We are all rooting for you and Murphy! 

[Jennifer and Jack]

So much love to you ! Hugs....I can't imagine how you feel..... Thanks for the update!