questions about bloat

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I didn't want to start this discussion on Kari's about her experience and her loss of Ari.
I read what was written on what not to do. My question is about the raised bowls. Charli is 28" tall at her shoulder. For her to have a bowl on the floor she was to spread her front legs so wide it hurts me to watch her. The other 2 aren't as tall but for them to have their bowls on the floor doesn't make eating easy.
My doodles chew their food, will go over and get a little water and come back to finish their dinner

I appreciate your suggestions.

[Linda, Charlie Brown and Beau]

I love this and I love your couch.  I am assuming that is dry kibble in that bowl.  Charlie would prefer me to feed him piece by piece - which is not happening!

[Bonnie and Kona]

When I had a Cavalier he convinced my visiting mother to feed him kibble with a bit of peanut butter smeared on each piece. He refused to eat for a day before he got the message of how things were going to work after she flew home. hahaha

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Ned eats lying down but my gobblers do not. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Calla always lies down to eat her food. Like Joann, I never taught her to do this. Luca is shorter and eats standing up. They both drink lots of water after eating. But really how could I not let them since the kibble is so dry. Calla eats all her food steadily, then goes to drink. I don't plan to try to change this.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's another perspective on the issue of raised dishes/bloat that makes sense to me and may help put your mind at ease if you do use them:

About Elevated Dishes

Anyone that has owned these dogs, knows that every single book written about Great Dane or giants, regardless of how old the book is, states we need to elevate the dishes. That means, the majority of giant breeds in this country are fed from elevated dishes and in fact, it was Vet schools such as Purdue that taught us to elevate the dishes years ago. Even without that information from breeders, books or veterinarians, it is obvious to an owner, the dogs are more comfortable with their dishes elevated so they do not have to strain to eat. This information about elevated dishes is taught by breeders to buyers, by vets to clients, by books on the breed to the new puppy buyer who is trying to educate themselves.

The majority of dogs involved in this study, were owned by Great Dane breeders or dogs purchased from Dane breeders, and that is where the owners received the information about the bloat study. With that information in mind, it is logical that the majority, if not ALL of the dogs that came in to Dr. Glickman's survey, have been fed with an elevated dish. This is simply how he came to his "opinion" that elevated dishes cause bloat. Also you need to know most of the dogs that were viewed in this study were seen-chest measured, while they were at a Great Dane Specialty show or at the Great Dane week long National Specialty which means all the dogs tested were actually owned by professional breeders. Virtually 99% all the dogs measured would have been raised with elevated dishes, hence the high numbers in the study.

(in my opinion, that is the same logic as if you see a pregnant woman with pierced ears, that means every woman with pierced ears is pregnant ).

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/on_my_soap_box_purdue_bloat_s...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, diet can play a role.  if your dog gets a percentage of his diet in the form of home-made foods, it decreases the risk of bloat significantly, and adding canned food also decreases the risk, although not as much as home-cooking. Half of JD's food is home-cooked.

"The ingredients of a dog’s diet also appear to factor into susceptibility to bloat. A Purdue study examined the diets of over 300 dogs, 106 of whom had bloated. This study found that dogs fed a dry food that included a fat source in the first four ingredients were 170 percent more likely to bloat than dogs who were fed food without fat in the first four ingredients. In addition, the risk of GDV increased 320 percent in dogs fed dry foods that contained citric acid and were moistened before feeding. On the other hand, a rendered meat meal that included bone among the first four ingredients lowered risk by 53 percent.

Another study by Purdue found that adding “table foods in the diet of large- and giant-breed dogs was associated with a 59 percent decreased risk of GDV, while inclusion of canned foods was associated with a 28 percent decreased risk.”

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/8_1/features/15682-1.html

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Oh Food Guru -  I have another question- I am feeding the crew Wellness Core Grain Free Reduced Fat. I just looked at the ingredients and didn't see anything about citric acid. Do the labels actually state 'critic acid' or is it listed as something else?

I give them only 2 cups of kibble mixed with my cooked veggies. I am grateful that they are not inhalers!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It would say citric acid if it was in the food. It's used as a preservayive, and they have to list the preservatives by name.

But remember, citric acid is only a factor if you moisten the food. Dry food containing citric acid is not in itself a factor.

I also don't think it's used much in dog food any more, at least not in the foods we recommend. It may have been in wider use when this study was done.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Now I'm confused. Sounds like everything I do is wrong.  No home cooking, no wet foods, I have no idea about the contents of citric acid in Spud's flood.  The only thing I always practice is NO PLAY after eating.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's no citric acid in Spud's food. I was just citing factors that could mitigate or offset the risks of using the raised bowls, as Adrianne and I do. And trying to stave off panic, lol. For example, there's been no mention yet in either of the discussions on bloat, of the lower risk for smaller dogs, and dogs who do not have narrow deep chests. I really think you have to take all the factors into account. The Great Dane Lady had a good point that when the study was done, the dogs who bloated were eating from raised dishes because a huge percentage of all giant breed dogs were eating from raised bowls. So that means a lot of the dogs who were eating from elevated bowls didn't bloat.

What hasn't changed is the breeds and physical characteristics that put a dog at risk. So if your dog has those risk factors, you maybe take some extra steps to prevent it. If you have a mini-doodle, you barely have to think about this.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Thank You.  Now I wonder about his strange, deep, narrow chest. I always rub that chest and say strange. Maybe I can get a picture.  There really is nothing I can do about his strange chest.  At least, we have been reminded on what to watch for once again. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jack has that strange, deep narrow chest, too. Nothing we can do about that. All we can do is make the best decisions we can for them with the information we have available, and ask for a little luck.

:-)