Alpha puppy?

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

this is long-winded, but if you read to the bottom, thank you in advance...

I finally got my mini goldendoodle, Noah, on Saturday. However, the airline admitted to making a mistake and sent my puppy to California and his littermate to me. I have spent the past 4 days trying to resolve this issue. Long story short, the people who have my puppy in California are refusing to send him back, and the airline will most likely press charges and have the police seize the puppy. However, it looks like I will probably just end up keeping the littermate. The puppy I was expecting was the calmest, quietest and smallest of the litter. Noah is the exact opposite. He was the dominant playful one in the litter. I'm sure he trampled over his littermates to get to his mom. I love him already and he's very sweet, but he's also very demanding and pushy. If my other dog Sherlock (7 month old maltipoo, bigger and stronger than Noah, but definitely not an alpha dog) has something that Noah wants, Noah will growl and charge at Sherlock. Sherlock doesn't care if Noah gets his stuff, because there's never a shortage of treats/toys available. The dogs get along really well and have bonded already. (Earlier this morning, Sherlock started his low barks (usually this is the start to his alarm barking) and I woke up and saw Noah was sitting up. I put him on his wee wee pad and then he threw up. Sherlock must have sensed something was wrong and was letting me know.)

Anyway, my question is, did anyone else bring in a new dog and have that dog immediately become the alpha? It's hard to see Sherlock letting an 8 week old puppy steal his stuff, but at the same time, if Sherlock does nothing to get it back, I can't do anything about it. This morning Sherlock was eating from Noah's dish, and Noah was about a foot behind Sherlock going crazy - barking/growling in a playful manner - Sherlock just kept eating and didn't seem to care. Sometimes if Noah sees Sherlock with something, he'll let out a low growl and charge towards Sherlock - but if Sherlock wants to keep something, Noah can't get it away from him.

Is Noah exhibiting alpha tendencies? It's hard for me to tell because he's very playful and very high-energy. He's so young also that I think most of this behavior is puppy play. He's very bold and assertive, but that doesn't mean he's alpha. He's still small enough that Sherlock can correct him if he goes too far, but Noah may double Sherlock's size eventually and I don't want Sherlock to be bullied. I chose the other puppy for this exact reason. But now I like Noah and don't think I want to make the switch. Any suggestions?

[Adina P]

Does the breeder know this? I would think the breeder would want a say in this matter--and she/he would expect the right puppy to go to the right home and fight for your right to get the right one. She should also know who has which puppy for her records.

As far as Alpha or not...I still think it's a little early to say for sure.

Adina

[GBK]

My Kona came in with all intentions of not ever backing down to her big brother. She still does not, but he has managed to hang on to top dog status. She never submits to him, although she will to any other dog that shows dominance. If you watch their bother and sister video on my page you will see even the very first day at 8 weeks she is biting at his feet and barking constantly at him and she was such a little squirt! They are the best of freinds, they just act like siblings :)

Wow, what a story about that airlines snafu!!! I would be very upset myself at those other people, and I would imagine the breeder is so mad at the airlines. How could you trust them again????

Good Luck Jane
Gina

[Rae]

Hi Jane! OMG! I'd be totally out of my mind about the airline mess up. I know you simply love Noah so this makes the entire situation even harder. I think the airlines should not only refund you the cost of the airfare but the entire cost of your puppy! That's the very least they should do! Having the police take the puppy away from the other family isn't going to correct their mistake and I'm sure the other family is just as in love with the baby they have as you are with Noah. Please keep us informed as to how this does or doesn't work out.

Our second Goldendoodle, Bella, is and always has been the alpha dog. She's fully grown at 36 pounds and totally/completely dominates Rozee our older GD that weighs 73 pounds. If Rozee has a chew bone/toy and Bella wants it there is no stopping Bella. She will paw at her face, cry, bark, jump on top of Rozee, and just generally be a pain in the butt until Rozee gives in. Bella will even take "the prize" right out of Rozee's mouth. And our sweet, gentle, calm Rozee just lets her. We keep telling Rozee to stand up for herself but it's just not in her nature. So we completely understand what you're saying. We haven't been able to stop this behavior. We tried separating the dogs...then Rozee acts like she's done something wrong. We've tried giving Bella another toy - no deal. So I wish we had a good suggestion/answer and will be real interested to see what others say.

[Adina P]

This is a YOUNG puppy though...so may need a little more attention span for the exercises in Controlled Unleashed (though I haven't read it myself I've heard a lot about it). What do you think?

[Laura Brody, CPDT]

Jane,

I have lots of feedback for you, but I am on my way out of the door to a behavior appointment. If you can wait, I'll email you at the end of the day with my opinion. Remember, anyone who gives advice sight unseen is only in the position to be a professional guesser and can only give general advice, me included.

The one thing I want to leave you with for now is that all puppies have what we call "A Puppy License". This is a free-pass given by older stable dogs to act like...well, a puppy. Eventually, this will be "revoked" when the dog is about 5 months old, sometimes even younger.

Later, the rest of the story...in the mean time, go to this website and spend some time on it. It's an invaluable resource for dog owners of any age.
www.dogstardaily.com

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

WOW what a mess with the airlines! I hope it gets resolved soon. I have to ask~ if you get your puppy back, why wouldnt you give them their puppy?

How do you know your puppy was the calmest? Did you ever meet it in person? Here is my point~ Puppies are puppies, they play hard and are little furry balls of spaz! Everything he is doing based on what you have wrote sounds natural. Just because your multipoo was there first doesn't make him boss or higher ranking. There are many things you can do to curb your puppies excitement and what you think is aggressive and assertive behavior. You will likely go through the same thing with the other puppy. It doesnt sound like there is anything wrong~ just normal puppy play and excitement.

Good Luck

[2hl9mp3c2fuam]

Oh my gosh!!!!

Well I am having "marking" issues with my pup, but hoping that is resolved with his neuter surgery on the 23rd. He must be "battling" for some type of "order" in the house...but he is loosing!! LOL!! I'm taking much advice and working on the issue. Good luck to you!!

[Adina P]

I wanted to say more. First...my first thought is puppies are ANNOYING (not to ME) to older dogs/pups and many times an older dog/pup WILL kinda let the puppy be a nuisance for a while. I hadn't heard the term "puppy license" before Laura mentioned it below...but I think that is what she refers to. My dogs tend to ignore puppies antics too...after a while, they give in and play but first IGNORE big time! I wouldn't worry about it yet...let them work out an agreement between themselves. WE can't determine the pecking order of dogs below us amongst themselves...as long as they both see YOU as their ultimate leader, things should be okay.

Please let us know what the airline/other family/breeder ends up doing/saying. BOTH of you stand to get some kind of courtesy from the airline that twisted things all around...but not sure what the best thing to do is about the puppies. You both LOVE your current pup even though it is the "wrong" one...maybe it is one of those twists of fate with a good ending!

[Mary Beth Sancomb-Moran]

Man, I would nip this behavior in the bud. Noah seems to be more dominant than Sherlock, which at this point is kind of cute. When he gets bigger, though, it can get out of control pretty quickly. Much easier to establish the rules now! (It's like with kids - if you can't establish rules when they're 2, it's REALLY hard when they're 15.)

Sherlock needs you to be the alpha and protect him from the new kid....and the new kid needs to learn that he can't just run rampant and do whatever he can get away with.

We had rather the opposite situation when we brought Casey into the pack. Our rat terrier immediately let him know who was boss. We allowed that to some extent, since Zena is 20 pounds and Casey grew to be a huge doodle. Casey did his share of little brother annoying to his two big sisters!

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

Where in Ca. is the other puppy? I'm in San Diego & will pick him up if you need me to. Re training, I agree with Mary Beth. Suggest the book Leader of the Pack. You need to be the alpha bitch. Yes, do interfere & protect your smaller older pup. Puppy love from Joy & furry folk [e-mail]

[April Cliber]

When I take a puppy to the airport, I have to sign off on the name and address info and then watch them stick it right to the crate. Before I leave, all of the info is permanently stuck, and they zip tie the door shut. So, I don't understand how they could have messed up? This sounds kind of fishy to me..... I'd definitely want a detailed report from the airline, something went very wrong.

[Jacque Reynolds]

Hi, my first thought is that the pup is young and adjusting to a new environment and may calm down once he becomes more familiar with your family and with Sherlock. That being said, you probably should keep an eye on things, just so that you can better determine if something is developing that you would want to deal with.
It sounds to me like the breeder is acting very responsibly and that the airline is doing what they can to help...am I right in my intrepetation that the other family dropped their puppy (your first choice) off at the shelter? I am confused...I thought that I read that they did not want to trade because they love their pup...then the part about the humane society was written and I wasn't sure.
I am a breeder and I will tell you that puppies sometimes learn and grow once they leave their siblings...so sometimes the breeder, although they know their puppies well, are surprised to hear about personality traits...unexpected ones. (That is not always a bad thing.)
When my first puppies go, I find that the remaining pups tend to "come out of their shells" and become more assertive...so, what I am saying is that sometimes the pup's personality will grow and change with their new environment.
If your pup is very young, and it sounds like 8-10 weeks of age to me, then I think that with time, training and lots of positive intervention, your pup will be fine.
I would suggest that you let the two dogs work it out. Will they fight? Perhaps. Likely, however, they will not. Sometimes the alpha dog just needs to hold his place so that he remains alpha.
In our "pack" our alpha dogs change...our alpha female is top dog at dinner time, and with toys, but is very much giving in other areas and allows other dogs to take the alpha role.
I'd suggest that you get a dog behavioralist to come by and give you some feedback.
Without being a part of the activity, it is difficult for us to really give good advice.
Here are a couple of links that might be helpful: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&am...
http://leerburg.com/Dominac2.htm
None of these are sure answers for you and there is certainly room for the personality and breeding of the dog (and dog type) to enter into the discussion...but these articles are pretty good for generaly info.
Good luck!