Fire Your Dog Trainer!

[Adina P]

Poking around the internet for a trainer to recommend to someone, I found this article on a trainer's site.  It's looooong.  But, based on the problems dog owners continue to have, class after expensive class...I think it's worth considering the message of this article.  Every time someone posts about a common (loose leash walking is a big one!) dog problem that they've worked on and for what they've been to 2+ classes and which is STILL not solved...my first response (to myself) tends to be "get a new trainer!" 

http://www.massachusettsdogtrainer.com/page9.php

What are your thoughts?

[Carolyn Shusterman]

Adina, I loved reading the article.  We were without dogs for 15+ years.  When we got Hershey I trained her myself using the methods I used 30 years ago, but I didn't have the benefit of a class of dogs.    When I went to the AKC dog shows and watched the obedience rings I was so surprized at how much more lenient the judges were.  I talked to the AKC official and expressed how different the obedience trails were then 30 years ago and he whole hardly agreed.  We trained with the training collars (slip chains) but we knew how to use them properly and we used praise as rewards.  We were conistent with all the words we used and only asked once.  We trained for short 5 minute sessions several times a day.  I could take my dogs anywhere without a lead and they stayed on my left side level with my shinbone.  We spoiled Hershey with inconsistency because she is so darn cute.  BIG mistake I allowed was to let her jump up on my husband because he didn't want to bend over so far...now I have the problem of her greeting everyone she loves this way.  So much easier to guide the dog into proper  behavior then to untrain.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks for sharing this Adina.  I think there are lots of valid points in this article, and I think those trainers are everywhere...  I see more and more of them here in our area every day.  I do think there's one other point that may be missing from this article though.  There is often a lack of success that has to do much more with the owners than the trainer.  Before anyone fires their trainer they need to really examine their own actions and how consistent and effective they've been in carrying out the training plan.  To me it's critical to have the trainer actually show me the dogs that he/she has trained.....I want to see them being reliable off leash in very difficult situations. A trainer than can show me that he's taught dogs to sit, stay, come in a class setting doesn't impress me at all.  I want him to show me the dogs that walk right by his side off-leash through highly distracted settings.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"Before anyone fires their trainer they need to really examine their own actions and how consistent and effective they've been in carrying out the training plan"
I agree. I do think there are a lot of incompetent and inexperienced trainers out there. But I also see a lot of owners who think that the dog "gets trained" in the classes and training sessions and who don't follow through on a daily basis at home, or who think that once the class is over, the dog is trained now and they shouldn't have to work with him or stick to the program any more.

[Adina P]

Good points above about the importance of the owner following through and actually doing the work.  I agree that quite often people aren't doing their part. 

But do you ever feel like WE (in this group) are more helpful to some of our members than their trainers?  Sometimes I feel that way.  Like they get the majority of their help here because their trainers just don't address some things.  Isn't it the trainer's job to teach the owner how to deal with distractions and hold them accountable for doing their work?  Or to make sure they understand that they must practice in places other than their living room in order to get their dog to obey outside their living room?  It just seems like so many classes don't address real life obedience but instead only a means for teaching their dogs words. Then people are on their own when their dog knows what words mean but choose not to follow commands.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I do agree with that. I was also shocked by the fact that in the current discussion about the mini-goldendoodle who is protesting the child's hugging, etc. that they had two trainers who did not give the family any information about proper ways to interact with the dog or give them any real tools for an overall training plan. I think we helped a lot more just in that one discussion than the two paid "trainers".

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Wow, Adina....there's so much in what you've said here.  First of all I really don't think there are very many trainers who are holding the owners accountable for anything.  I think for many of them it's a business first and they really placate the owners to keep them coming back....puppy class, then intermediate, then "advanced" (which is usually a joke).  Our trainer has told us how difficult it can be to deal with owners.  He totally holds his customers accountable, and if you don't "work the training program" he will no longer train your dog (he feels if you don't practice, you're sending mixed signals which is totally unfair to the dog), but I know that he's in the minority.  I know from experience that most trainers really like running classes because they can get the "biggest return for their one hour a week investment".  They teach basic and some slightly more advanced commands in a sterile environment.  All the dogs "pass" at the end.....it would be really hard not to....and the owners go home happy thinking they have a "super star" obedient dog.  How funny is that?  There's usually a certificate and some sort of party.  I laugh now thinking that I actually got Murph to pass the CGC when he was highly dog reactive....I "beat the system" by having him practice the exact same things over and over and over.  Now I realize that it really was worthless and I'm even a little embarrassed by it.  That was all about MY ego...nothing more.  You'd think I'd be old enough to avoid that kind of trap....I digress.

You talk about trainers not teaching about "real life obedience"...only commands.  Again, I don't believe there are many trainers who CAN teach about "real life" issues.  A good trainer should be able to help you to really understand what's going on with your dog.....why they behave the way they do.  They should be able to tailor the training program TO YOUR DOG when that's needed.  It is not "one size fits all"....I've learned that.  Training is a way of life...it's how you interact with your dog every waking moment.  Most trainers haven't a clue about that. 

[Adina P]

It's unfortunate isn't it.  And think about how many people really have time to go through 4 obedience levels.  Not that many.  Not people with young kids usually.  Not the ones who are most likely to rehome (aside from the people with fluff reasons for rehoming, some probably would keep their dogs if they knew they could take ONE class and get decent control and management out of it).

Although I do disagree that all dogs need a very specialized, tailored plan.  I can see how a dog with extreme problems may need more help from a trainer (the trainer helping the owner MORE that is), but most dogs can go through a quality basics class and come out well trained, IF that class is indeed a QUALITY one and the owners follow the instruction.  Cas, Thule, Rosco, Boca = all diff personalities and drives.  All trained basically the same way.  All could/can walk nicely on leash in real life.  Only one got to complete off lead reliability because Clark actually 'finished' her.  But they all progressed as expected based on the work put into them. Yes, each of them needed a little more time in some areas compared to the other.  And with some you had to slow down/speed up, or get a little more creative or firm or patient.  There was no 'different' training for them.  Some stimuli were more distracting for some than others.  But overall, I or Clark followed the same training program.  Same start, same order of teaching, same commands, same leashes and collar types.  Same corrections and praise.  I learned something with each dog and got better with each dog.  Yet it was pretty much 'one size fits all.' 

But yeah...I'm sad at the number of ineffective trainers out there.  I believe in my training program so much that I am pretty confident I could take virtually any dog (though I'd skip the ones who wanted to eat people or dogs because I'd lose my confidence fast in their presence!) 6 months or older and have them walking politely on leash in less than one month.  That's faster than it takes to complete one obedience level. It's not because I think that I am 'all that,' but simply because I think I was lucky enough to choose an effective training program. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

When I think about tailoring a training program to a particular dog, I think about a couple of adult rescue dogs with issues I have known who could have been helped by the right training program, but whose owners sadly chose otherwise. One dog in particular with severe dominance issues whose (4th) owner was adamant about only using "positive" methods and rewards based training. She took him to clicker training classes, and he learned to do all kinds of fancy spinning to the left and right and how to place his paw on a large rubber prop, and all kinds of other neat party tricks that were of no use at all when he started attacking visitors to the home with no provocation or warning. Then he was put down.

[Adina P]

Sad.  No punishment for that dog...just death--epitome of NOT positive and super ironic :-(

A dog that I my trainer could have done wonders with!  She probably would have gone through a basic obedience program too.  It's just that her 'basic' is basic through triple advanced ;-)  And built in is an underlying teaching where the dog learns self control and new ways to behave, etc...etc.  She'd probably put a CD on him, then train him Open (because when you gain control of a dog's mouth...even more is accomplished) and put a CDX on him and finally adopt him out to someone she'd screened carefully and trained to handle him and continue his training.  Ahhhh good trainers.  Worth gold!  I think she just finished a senior sheltie and found him a home.  She's not a rescue organization, but to keep and improve her skills she sometimes takes on a rescue project. 

I think the problem with today's understanding of obedience is that 'basic' obedience used to mean the dog could reliably follow basic commands on and off leash.   Now it means that the 'basic' commands are begun.  "Just the basics" are not accomplished at the end of a first level obedience class.  They are introduced.  And often not in the most lasting, effective way.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I used to think that way too, Adina.....until Murph.  Now I believe a good, solid training program fits "most"....but there are some who need a specialized approach.  That's where you need a trainer who has the experience to deal with that.

[Adina P]

I think there is a place for specialized training for extreme cases, like Murph.  But most people who can't walk their dogs on leash don't need 'special' -- they just need quality.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Yes, absolutely!