What breed should they get?

[Adina P]

Someone who is having trouble signing up for DK has a question for our members.  They are looking to get a goldendoodle and live in Utah.

He and his wife are in their late 40s.  He is a University teacher and his wife works full time too, but he has some flexibility.  They have three kids who are all in school.  He also says:

"We have a fenced yard and live near miles of trails that are three blocks away.  I would like a calmer dog, 35 to 40 pounds, which enjoys walks and hikes.  We also skate ski in the winter and would love to take the dog too. My kids would be very affectionate with the dog.  That said, some days the dog would be home alone for at least five hours."

His wife also has allergies, but they don't want a poodle.  So they were recently looking into a goldendoodle, but are open to other breeds that fit their lifestyle and needs.

What would you advise them?

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

I would recommend a standard poodle from a highly reputable breeder. Then, keep it in a puppy cut or a doodle/bichon-style cut, and you will have a dog that looks very much like a doodle!

When DH and I were researching breeds, he was opposed to getting a poodle because his sister had had two standards that died young (before 8 years old). I know nothing about the breeders who bred those dogs, but I do know that, as is true of many popular pure breeds, a lot of puppy mills, BYBs, and other irresponsible people bred dogs with health problems. I also know that there are great breeders out there producing healthy, sound poodles with great temperaments.

I am allergic to anything with fur or feathers (except, apparently, poodles, hamsters, and Cosmo), and we were very lucky to find a highly responsible breeder of multigeneration ALDs who has achieved some consistency in coat and temperament. She helped us choose Cosmo, and he has turned out to be everything she predicted. He does shed (the breeder DID NOT promise non-shedding; we understood that he might), but I am not allergic to him. We took a bit of a risk, but we knew we would be able to cope however Cosmo's coat and allergy-friendliness turned out. And we know that we got extremely lucky with Cosmo, who is a wonderful dog.

If this family is willing to take a risk and not rehome the dog after the coat change, I think a reputable breeder of mutigen ALDs, who breeds consistent mediums and minis, might be their best bet. If they aren't willing to take the risk, they should choose a responsibly bred, small standard poodle.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Regarding health problems in poodles and other purebreds, the more popular a breed is in terms of its population, the more genetic diseases will run in the breed. Labrador Retrievers are also among the breeds with lots and lots of health issues; they are second only to German Shepherds of all the breeds affected by Atopic Dermatitis, which is an incurable immune-mediated disease, and which affects a good number of our doodles here on DK. Although the method of ionheritance is not known, it's clear that both parents do not have to be affected for the disease to manifest in the offspring, and this is true of many genetic diseases. And Goldens have even more. Golden Retrievers are the number one breed affected by cancer, with 66% of all Golden Retrievers being diagnosed with some form of cancer in their lifetimes. So you have to buy from a highly reputable breed regardless of what breed or mix you choose. The stuff about mixed breeds being healthier is a lot of hokum.

I agree that an ALD from a very experienced and reputable breeder would be more likely to be predictable in size; no guarantees, but probably a better shot at being within a certain range.

 

[Katherine]

That depends A LOT on the kennel club. My Golden is from Norway, and the retriever club there is running a really tight ship on health issues. If the parents do not meet the high (and increasing year for year) requirements then the pups will not be eligible for admittance into the club. It really deters both breeders and buyers. This has really had an enormous impact on the health of the Golden there, and it is now one of the longest living breeds. Conversely the more unusual breeds often have a very limited gene pool for breeding, and are seeing a dramatic increase in health issues. Lagotto Romagnolo is one example - demand outstrips supply to such an extent that buyers get somewhat blinkered.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

But not all breeders belong to the local kennel clubs, in any country. The information above pertains to North America, and even here, there are Golden Retriever breeders who follow the same practices as those you mention in Norway. The same is true for all breeds in this country. But a very very small percentage of breeders here belong to the local AKC kennel clubs. The vast majority of puppies here are from breeders who do not follow any protocols regarding health testing as set forth by the breed clubs, and that's why the statistics on the health issues in the various breeds are what they are. That's why your best bet when buying a purebred puppy in this country is to get breeder referrals from the local breed clubs. With mixed breed dogs, you're pretty much on your own in that sense.

[Katherine]

I think we're basically saying the same thing. Because the AKC, in contrast to other established kennel clubs, does not require health screening or other standards (beyond breed) for puppies to be advertised and sold as AKC registerable, there is a much higher frequency of genetic diseases among popular breeds in the US than there is in other countries. The breed I normally follow is Goldens, and it breaks my heart to know that the average age of a Golden here in US is 10.7 years, vs 11.5 in the UK and 12.5 in Norway. The problem in my view isn't the breeds, but the lack of control of breeders, and in the US I wish the AKC would be more demanding of breeders - that was my point. If they were you would see less genetic disease among the most popular breeds compared to the rest (due to a bigger gene pool). I know in the UK it's the rare breeds that have the shortest average life spans, the shortest being bloodhounds with a shockingly low average life of 5.3 years I think it was.

LOL - can you tell I just bought a new puppy? Been reading too much about breeds and breeding. Actually one of the reasons I've chosen to go for an English Goldendoodle is because the Kennel Club (i.e. UK) assured breeders program requires screening for many hereditary diseases, for example very good HD results and DNA testing for amongst others cancers and tear duct problems - two diseases that both Poodles and Goldens suffer from.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is a huge difference between a dog's being AKC registered and the breeder being a member of the local breed club, though. That's the difference, at least here in the U.S. Yes, any purebred puppy can get AKC registration papers, even puppy mill puppies. The AKC sells the papers to anyone who can prove that their puppies parents are both of the same breed.

But there are local breed clubs  within the AKC organization that hold their members to very, very strict standards regarding breeding practices and health testing standards. Every breeder is not a member of the breed clubs and is not an AKC Breeder of Merit, as they are called. In fact, very few are. The breed clubs give referrals and it's easy to find a good breeder that way, but many people don't understand this, and think that a dog having AKC "papers" is the same as the breeder being an AKC breeder of merit.

And I know that there are puppy mills in the UK, so I have to believe that every breeder there is not a member of the breed clubs or kennel clubs, and is not adhering to standards, either. So every "English" Golden Retriever is not from a breeder who adheres to an assured breeders program. I can tell you that AKC Breeders of Merit do not sell retrievers or poodles to doodle breeders...most of them are very much against crossbreeding. So the fact that a doodle breeder has "English" Golden Retrievers is no guarantee at all against genetic illness, unless you know that the name of the GR's breeder in England and get confirmation that they are indeed adhering to the breed club standards. I know of a well-known breeder of "English" goldendoodles here who has Sebaceous Adenitis in her lines, and many others whose dogs have had genetic illnesses cropping up. The doodle rescues get calls all the time from owners of these dogs; the breeders atre not willing to help them. And these are "reputable" breeders who do health testing.

There are all kinds of genetic diseases that cannot be tested for, and don't show up until a dog is 3-6 years old. A purebred breeder who doesnt breed a dog until he/she is at least three and who knows the lines for dozens of years back can avoid this, but that doesn't usually happen with mixed breed dogs, either.

And there have been a number of doodles who did have HD even though both parents were health tested, in some cases, because the structure and angles of the hip joint and legs in  GRs and LRs is different from that in poodles, especially when small poodles are used.

I do believe that part of the reason that any European dog of any breed may have a longer life span than his Amercian counterpart is that in Europe, certain preservatives and other ingredients that have been linked to cancers and other illness (BHA, BHT, menadione, and the list goes on) are not premitted in pet food or human food by law. Here, the corporations have more power, and no such laws exist.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, according to this list from the UKC, there is no DNA testing available for either cancer or tear duct issues in poodles or retrievers: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/8288/dnatestsworldwide.pdf

And, here is a link to the Assured Breeder Scheme promoted by the UK Kennel club.  Note... these things are NOT required of a breeder.  The Assured Breeder Program is voluntary and has little oversight.  The requirements for this program are listed here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2158     You can see that
it doesn't do much more than try to standardize the buyer/seller relationship. 
Most of the requirements are pretty vague.  As far as testing goes, it looks
like they require hips, elbows, eyes and whatever DNA testing is available for
the breed. This is exactly the same as the AKC Breeder of Merit program here. Brreders do not have to participate, and most do not.

[Adina P]

We should come up with an ad for a standard poodle.  Just something we can copy and paste for people who would like one, but just don't know it because their vision of a standard poodle is incorrect.  =)

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I saw the most beautiful standard Poodle today on our walk. He/she had on booties and was out in their yard. Gorgeous.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

In the Therapy Dog class I had to take to get recertified there were at least 3 standard poodles.  One was the same black/silver coloring as Lucy only more silver.  It was without a doubt one of the most beautiful dogs I have seen. The thing I found interesting was that during class all three of the standard poodles were either sitting on their owners laps or trying to.  They were so affectionate. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Anyone who thinks a poodle is "aloof" has never spent any time with one. They are totally people-focused. dogs. Compared to most poodles, a Golden Retriever is aloof, lol. Honestly, having spent so much time with poodles in my life, I have always thought Goldens and Labs seemed kind of vacant and easily distracted. A poodle is focused on you, not on that squirrel over there. (Well, maybe a little on the squirrel, too, lol)

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I had two Labs before Fudge and Vern, so of course, I am an expert on Labs now (LOL) but, our first Lab was not a hunting dog at all. Very laid back, etc. She just wanted to be with us. Then along came Fudge, an F1B Labradoodle. Outside she is so focused on everything around us....not me at all. Misses nothing...reacts to every moving thing, every sound, every everything...I have been attributing/blaming  that on her Poodle genes. I guess I have been wrong. Now, who do I blame? LOL