CHANGING FOODS

[LORRIE PAULUS]

Happy Monday morning!  I have a question about changing foods--I posted this on puppy madness but then saw this forum and thought it would be more appropriate.  We decided to transition Rosie(16 weeks) from Iams Puppy to Blue Buffalo--was thinking that Iamss was causing her some stool issue and haven't read good things about it.  She has previously been tested for Giardia and was on medication to treat it.  I started last Sunday(2/10)  with a 75 old/25 new mix and worked down.  Yesterday was the first day that she got 100% new food, her stool changed color a little (lighter than normal) but as of last night was still normal--it's kind of a light brown.  About 2:30 this morning she woke up (abnormal, she sleeps 7 hours at night), I took her out and she went #2.  At 4 am, when I got up for the day, I took her out and she went #2 again and seemed to be having some issues.  I went out and looked and her stool is like a soft serve ice cream consistency.  I am wondering if I transitioned her food too quickly--we did it in 7 days and I am thinking that may be the issue.  I am not feeding her this morning;  otherwise she's fine and was playful this morning.  I am going to call the vet this morning to see if it's OK for me to add a little pumpkin to her food to harden it back up, but I'm wondering if I should back track and go back to 50/50 for a few days and gradually take her down for another week, which would be 2 weeks total.  Has anyone else experienced issues when transitioning?  How about the pumpkin idea?  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is a common issue, and the problem is not the food but the giardia and the medications used to treat it. Giardia in puppies can be very difficult to get rid of, and often they need several cycles of medication. Meanwhile, the meds are destroying all of the good bacteria in the gut along with the bad, and that good bacteria is necessary for healthy digestion, so you end up with a vicious circle of diarrhea, food changes, meds, etc. Dogs must always, always be given yogurt or a good probiotic when they are taking antibiotics. Also, if you are not diligent about disinfecting all areas where the dog has pooped (and that means bleach, outdoors and indoors, washing bedding, etc, and cleaning the dog each time she goes), the pup can keep reinfecting herself. Another problem is that for some reason, many vets treat giardia with metronidazole, which is not the most effective drug for it. You need Panacur. When a puppy has been diagnosed with giardia, it's important not to change their food until she has been off meds for at least one week and has had a followup fecal that's negative. Is that the case with your dog?

A healthy dog who has firm normal stools should not need more than a week to transition foods, and it can often be done cold turkey. I am willing to bet that your puppy has giardia right now. A food change could cause an upset tummy and loose stool, but it can't cause a dog to wake up at 2:30 needing to poop. That's a classic symptom of giardia. Adding fiber in the form of pumpkin is not going to get rid of giardia.

I would have the vet run another fecal and I would insist that he/she give you Panacur. It's a 3-5 day treatment. Pick up some plain, unflavored fat-free yogurt and give her 1-2 tablespoons three times per day. Make sure that you do not give the yogurt within 2 hours or more of the medications.

I would not go back to Iams. You can stay with the new food, or you can feed her a mixture of plain boiled white meat chicken and plain white rice, or plain mashed sweet potatoes for three days while the Panacur is doing its job. Then gradually add in the kibble with the homecooked mixture. Continue to give her yogurt, you can mix it in with her food.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[LORRIE PAULUS]

My vet gave her 2 medicines, the names of which escape me, one was a smaller pill and one a larger.  She was taking them every 12 hours for about 10 days and finished them about the 9th of February.  Her poop has been soft since we've had her, but formed.  He actually didn't do a fecal sample on her the first time for the giardia but based on the symptoms she was having at the time thought he would treat her for it.  I thought maybe the Iams was the issue then too.  She did not eat any yogurt while taking the meds.  I started the food change on the 10th and she was 100% yesterday. I talked to my vet a little while ago, and he said he thought it could be the food change.  My pet sitter was there at 7:30 am until 9;15 this morning and all was well with her in the crate.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's kind of disturbing to me that a vet would give a puppy two different medications without running a simple fecal to determine whether or not there is a parasite, and if so, what kind of parasite he is treating. Every drug does not work equally well on every parasite. Antibiotics are not harmless drugs, and no drug should be given, especially to a young puppy, unless it is absolutely necessary. Current research on serious gastrointestinal diseases in dogs suggests that repeated courses of antibiotics for parasites in puppies can be a factor in the development of digestive disease later on. So it's always best to ask questions when any meds are prescribed.

So what is your vet's advice at this point?

 

[LORRIE PAULUS]

I think he based his treatment on the fact that I told him she had been drinking from mudpuddles and puddles in my driveway during recent rain and snows, and then she started with the loose stools. Otherwise, she was acting fine, etc.  I talked to my pet sitter just now and she said that Rosie went #2 while they were there, but it was mostly firm (they knew about issue earlier this morning).  I spoke to my vet, and he thought it could be due to the food and the fact she was at 100% yesterday.  He asked me to cut back on amount and go back to 50/50 split and start back from there. If she doesn't improve he said to call him back. She's getting spayed next week.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would give her the yogurt, it might help and certainly can't hurt.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, I would be sure to ask for Panacur if she needs any further treatment. It is usually given in a powder form.

[LORRIE PAULUS]

How much yogurt should I give her?  With her food?  And isn't Panacur available in Pet stores, I thought it was used for de-worming?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have never seen Panacur in pet stores. "De-worming" that is done by breeders is usually also aimed at getting rid of coccia and giardia, so some of the same drugs are used, but the breeders rarely use Panacur because they use some stuff that's cheaper. Panacur (Fenbendazole) is the drug of choice for treating giardia.

Treatment of Giardia infections in dogs and cats:

• Metronidazole (e.g., Flagyl) can be used in both dogs and cats (not in pregnant animals).
• Albendazole (e.g., Valbazen) was recently found to be quite effective in dogs, and may be more efficacious than metronidazole in stopping the shedding of cysts. However, both metronidazole and albendazole have been associated with significant adverse reactions in dogs and cats:
  • Albendazole: leukopenia +/- anemia and thrombocytopenia; anorexia, lethargy; CNS signs; vomiting and diarrhea; salivation; elevated hepatic and pancreatic enzyme levels; abortion and teratogenicity
  • Metronidazole: vomiting; CNS signs
• Fenbendazole (e.g., Panacur® or Drontal-Plus®) now appears to be the drug of choice. Used in dogs and cats at 50 mg/kg for 3 (-5) days, fenbendazole has been shown to be completely effective in eliminating experimental Giardia infections, and with only mild vomiting/diarrhea as potential side effects.

From the Univ. Of Wisc Veterinary School: http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoonoses/gik9fel/giardia.html

[LORRIE PAULUS]

OK, it must have been something else.  I was reading about digestive enzymes.  How much yogurt?  Do I mix with her food?  Is yogurt better than pumpkin because of probiotics?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yogurt and pumpkin have nothing to do with each other. Pumpkin is given simply to add fiber. It has no therapeutic value and won't help if there is a digestive disease, parasite, etc. Sweet potatoes and yams will add fiber the same way.

Yogurt is given for the good bacteria it contains, the active cultures. Normal digestion requires good gut flora, and antibiotics destroy that.

Digestive enzymes usually fall under the category of snake oil. I would ignore any website or advice that talks about digestive enzymes, as that indicates a lack of knowledge of biology or physiology. Enzymes are made by the body out of amino acids that are derived from what we eat. When we eat digest our food, the protein is broken down into the individual amino acids, and those are then used by the body in hundreds of ways, one of which is to recombine them to form all the enzymes we need including digestive enzymes. It's the same for dogs.

The problem with taking digestive enzymes that are already formed is that the stomach acid is going to break those back down into the individual amino acids again anyway, lol. So they are worthless. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Digestive enzymes are formed by the pancreas which releases them into the small intestine. So unless there is a pancreatic deficiency there is no need to add digestive enzymes.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks, F!