Puzzling Intestional Issues

[Kathy (Ellie & Oliver)]

We are lucky enough to have two GDs in our lives. Ellie is nine and Oliver is five. Both of our dogs started with the runs and throwing up on Mon., Feb. 25th. I put them on a soft diet and they responded well for a few days and then the runs started again and at times, they threw up bile. Ellie had bloody mucus in her poop so both dogs went into the vet, had their poop tested, and had a blood test. Ellie was put on metronidazole 250mg and Sucralfate 1GM. All tests for both dogs came back negative.

The vet told us that when the dogs had three days of firm poops, we could start introducing a small amount of dog food. We introduced their Fromms 4 Star dog food. As soon as I would get the dogs almost transitioned over to Fromms the runs would come back. We thought maybe the Fromms dog food had gone bad so back to the soft diet again. Vet wanted me to put the dogs on some dog food for sensitive stomachs and I said that I'd prefer to do some food research. Next thing I did was come to the DK food group and did a search. Read a lot of comments and decided to transition our dogs to Canidae Pure Sky. After 3 days of firm poops, started to feed a tablespoon of Canidae Pure. I got the dogs up to 1/2c of Canidae and the runs started again. We concluded that their regular Fromms dog food was fine because the same thing happened with the Canidae grain free food. Their soft diet consists of rice, noodles, white bread, scrambled eggs, chicken, pumpkin, and plain nonfat yogurt.

Our dogs were taken to the vet many times. Ellie was on the above listed medicines three times and Oliver was on them twice. The pattern with the medicine seems to be they take the medicine for five days. The dogs are fine for five days after that and the cycle of the runs starts again. Last week, the vet suggested that we add a pack of probiotics to one of their meals. Our older dog's poop has been better since we added the probiotics, Oliver's was ok, too. But yesterday and today Oliver's poop was getting soft again. The dogs are still on a soft diet. I guess that their poop could be tested again for parasites. Something is going on in their digestive system. Both dogs became sick on the same day!!

I think that Ellie is ready to start with some type of dog food. She has had good poops for five days. Should I try feeding her Fromms 4 Star, the grain free Canidae Pure, or something else? Maybe the grain free food would be too rich.

Any insight that you might want to share would be greatly appreciated. Before they came down with this bug, both dogs were never sick and never had any issues. This whole situation is puzzling to us!

Thanks!
Kathy, Ellie, & Oliver

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's no question in my mind that they picked up some kind of infection or stomach virus. Are they ever unsupervised outdoors? Could they have gotten hold of any kind of dead bird or animal outside? Do they have access to any ponds, pools, etc? 

It's very common for dogs to have digestive problems following metronidazole. The vets hand it our like candy any time a dog has loose stool, but it's a pretty powerful antibiotic that will destroy all of the good bacteria in the gut along with the bad. This is why it is absolutely imperative to always give probiotics and/or yogurt when a dog is on metronidazole, and to only use the latter when necessary, no matter what the vet says.

Next time you feed a bland or 'soft" diet, I would not include so much white starch. No white bread, no noodles. Keep it plain white rice and boiled white meat chicken, in a 50/50 combination, or better yet, plain mashed sweet potatoes and boiled chicken in a 50/50 combo. Scrambled eggs are fine, too. 

"Richness" in food has to do with fat content. Grain-free foods are not any richer than any other type of food. But there is too much going on with these guys' digestive systems to keep changing their food. I would stay with the Fromm.  Give them 2-3 tablespoons of plain fat-free unflavored yogurt twice a day. You might consider giving probiotics, too. iFlora is a good one.  It's going to take some time for their digestive tracts to get back to normal. A spoonful or two of plain pure canned pumpkin or mashed sweet potatoes with their meals would help, too. 

Keep us posted.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I would probably go with the Fromm since you know how she reacted to that before she got sick.  She might be fine with the Canidae but since she hasn't had it before you wouldn't be able to tell if more soft stool was because of the new food or the underlying issue. 

[Tina]

Did the vet test for giardia? I know there are a lot of people who get false negatives. If the vet isn't using the ELISA test I think, the chances of receiving false negatives is higher. I'm battling it now with my puppy. We did panacur for 5 days then he was fine for about 2 weeks maybe and the diarrhea came back. She tested him again and he came back positive again. So it was panacur for another 7 days. He's been fine since. I did give his body a rest for a week and am now giving him panacur again for 6 days. I actually bought safe guard which is feebendazol(the same thing as panacur) from our tractor and feed store and am doing it on my own for this third round. I researched giardia a bunch for the last month android seems to work well. I ran it by my ex brother in law just to be safe who is a vet out of my state and he said it would be fine. I would definitely call the vet and ask about the giardia and what test he is using. It's highly contagious and if you dot pick up the poop, wipe paws and wipe the bums, the little furball a just keep infecting themselves. Happy thoughts going your way! I know the diarrhea battle all too well. I am so happy we are over that for now. I hope for good ;) Now, we are just battling the night time crying! I keep telling myself, I will survive puppyhood! I don't think my daughter as a newborn was this hard. LOL

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

These dogs are 5 and 9 years old, though, and it''s very unusual for dogs that age to suddenly pick up giardia, let alone both on the same day. 

Giardia is common in doodle puppies, but not in older adults.

[Tina]

Karen, I didn't even think of the age. I was just throwing an idea out there. After battling it, it's all I think of these days when I see diarrhea. LOL can we say traumatized?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Believe me, I understand, lol. I had a 10 month old foster with giardia a few years back. I was so paranoid, I resodded half my backyard. It's usually the first thing I think of when someone posts that a puppy has diarrhea. 

But in this case, I don't think it's giardia. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

My two had a bout of diarrhea 2 or more months ago. Calla got it first and Luca a few days later but I'm sure they could have gotten it at the same time since I decided it was a viral thing most likely. But after a week or so all was back to normal. I did take in a stool sample on Calla and eventually gave her Imodium once or twice.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This could very well be the same thing with Kathy's dogs, although they were also vomiting. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Yes, no vomiting here.

[Kathy (Ellie & Oliver)]

Thank you for responding so quickly. We always take our dogs out on a leash. After they poop, we go back out and clean it up right away. They don't have access to standing water, pond, or dead animals. We live in WI and up until last week had piles of snow. Since they both came down with the runs at the same time, we think that they got into something. Neither dog has thrown up since Tues., Mar. 26th. We're thankful for that!

The only thing that we can think of is that we have a lot of wild turkeys coming into our yard. My husband has quite a few bird feeders in the trees on the edge of the yard. In the winter, we take the dogs out on the side of the garage. I have seen in the past, a few turkeys near the area where the dogs do their business. Those feeders have been moved, and I haven't seen any turkeys in that area. The dogs did get sick before the feeders were moved. Several years ago we put up a temporary fence in part of the back yard so that the dogs could run. As time goes on, it has also kept the turkeys out. We do take our dogs out in the front of our house when the dog next door isn't out. Their dog is supposedly controlled with an underground electric fence. I don't trust her. She comes barking and running towards our dogs like she wants to get at them. We found out, when she's out it's easier to take them out in the fenced in area or the side of the garage.

When the dogs were well, they were fed 2 cups of dog food a day. In the evening, they also received some extras like pumpkin, yogurt, and chicken. Since they have been sick, I've been feeding them 3 times a day so that their stomachs aren't overworked. 2/3 cup at each meal. I boiled some chicken breasts and made some white rice last night. I'm going grocery shopping today and will buy some sweet potatoes. I'll also make the combinations of chicken/rice, etc. 50/50. I was making it 2/3 rice, 1/3 chicken and then adding pumpkin, yogurt, etc. They also get a packet of FortiFlora on their evening meal.

Ellie's stool is firm, but I'm going to wait a few more days to start with dog food. If Oliver's stool stays loose, I'm going to have his poop tested again. Each dog had a fecal sample tested, and Oliver had a more extensive fecal test. They took a sample out of his butt and sent it in. All tests came back negative. The vet did say even if the results came back negative there still could be a problem.

I some times wonder if the dogs are lacking important nutrients because they've been on a soft diet for so long. My husband teases me that I'm an expert at making scrambled eggs and boiled chicken!!! Once again, thank you for your thoughts!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

One reason I like sweet potatoes over rice is that besides all the fiber, they supply more vitamins and minerals than rice. I wouldn't worry about the dogs becoming deficient in any nutrients in such a short time. I'd continue giving the pumpkin and the yogurt. 

Were they getting any kind of new treats or chews?

You may never know what caused it. As F mentioned, dogs can get stomach viruses sometimes. 

Fortiflora is not a recommended probiotic. Since you have it, go ahead and use it, but in the future, get something else. Fortiflora is a Purina product and contains a flavoring agent called"animal digest" which is an ingredient to avoid. It also costs too much for what it is. And always make sure not to give probiotics within 2 hours of antibiotics.

I hope their GI systems get back to normal soon. Please do keep us posted.

[Kathy (Ellie & Oliver)]

What brand name of probiotics do you recommend and where can I get some? I read in your first post that you mentioned iFlora. Just came back to edit message. I found iFlora on Amazon. What kind should I order capsules or powder? Is there a certain iFlora for dogs? It looks like the ones on Amazon are for people.

I thought that the one that you mentioned was the same as Fortiflora. When I first saw the name Purina on the box, I did become uncomfortable. They will be on Fortiflora for one additional week. I'm learning so much!! Thank you for helping us out!!