When Is Training Finished?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Karen shared the top training mistakes, and we thought there would be value in expanding them each into a discussion.  Here's the first one....

1. You don’t train your dog often enough

Most of us do teach basic behaviours and routines to our new dogs. But once the relationship stabilizes, we often allow our dogs to go on “auto-pilot.” Consequently, response times for important behaviours can worsen; often a dog won’t even respond. This degradation is simply a function of a lack of practice; if you play golf only once a year, you’re going to stink at it, right?

Instead of “training then forgetting,” keep your dog’s established behaviours sharp by working them randomly and regularly, several times each day. “Sit” for dinner, “wait” at doors, “down” at the dog park; be spontaneous and unpredictable. Then, each month, teach a new behaviour—a trick will do—to keep your dog’s mind and motivation up. The larger your pet’s repertoire of behaviours, the smarter he or she gets, and the more important you become.

So here's the question....how often do you train, and at what point would you consider your training to be finished?

Speaking for myself, I'm not sure I'd ever consider G & M "fully trained".  I think there will always be things for them to learn....and they need that.  It's just a part of our life now.  I know that my kids keep asking when we're going to stop using our trainer and why it's "taking so long".  It would be silly to think that people stop learning....I hope that I continue to learn and grow, so why shouldn't the dogs?  What are your thoughts?

[Adina P]

I don't think Hattie would lose her connection to you without training.  She would lose her training without using her training, but I think Hattie would be connected to you even if you were physically unable to train her anymore.  I personally still really want an obedience title, but it will have to be a project for after both of my kids are in grade school.  To me a title is evidence that I was able to complete a level of training successfully and that in a new situation, where nerves are high, my dog would obey. It's validation of the work I've put in. Validation that what I did is a useful thing to do (because it got a measurable result) and validation that I did it well enough.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is my dream, too. Next dog. :-)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This is really interesting because it gets into what is our motivation for training.  I personally have no plans to ever pursue an obedience title, so that's not my motivation.  I love watching it and think this is awesome for others who enjoy it, but it's not what gives me the incentive to train my guys every day.  My goal is to have them both at a point where they can have the freedom that I believe will really enhance their lives.  I've already started to experience that.  Here's what "success" will look like to me...

-the doorbell rings and I tell them to go to their place....they do and wait to be released....I release and they calmly greet the guests and then go lie down.

-when it's time for a walk, we go out to the car (unleashed)...they get in the car and lie down...we go to the Park where they walk right by our side calmly on or off leash.

-there is never any concern of them counter surfing, chewing, or destroying anything.

-they are always focused on me when they need to be and have a foolproof recall....this is key to their "freedom".

-they are completely reliable around all humans....no matter what.

We're about 75% of the way there....when we get all the way, I'll know that we were successful and I feel like the boys will be living the way they would want to.

[Adina P]

I wouldn't say an obedience title is my motivation for training. My original motivation was to get Rosco under control.   Then, I realized I really enjoyed it and seemed to do better and get better results than the average person--shown by the fact that my dogs walked politely on leash and others were way out front, pulling, etc.  I loved the method I used because my understanding continually evolved and grew the more I did it.  My understanding of the method and application grew and as it grew, my results improved.  And every time I read things on a training forum I belong to that follows the same thing...I would learn something more.  It was exciting that there was so much to it.

Training itself turned into a fun hobby and I liked living with my dogs more when I spent training time with them.  It bonded us and allowed me to communicate and have some control over my dog's behavior so they were welcome in the world at large, easy to go places with and not a pulling, lunging, biting, nuisance.  An obedience title just seemed like the next logical step because it was something, at least with Boca, I felt I had a chance at accomplishing.  I wanted her obedience to commands to be impeccable:  heel, sit, down, stay, come -- I want them all to be bullet proof.  To me it is almost not worth training if I don't aim for 100% on those commands.  But since I am aiming for 100%, seems like a good idea to put us through a more-or-less objective test to determine how we do.  That's why I want a trainer who has obedience titles on her dogs.  It means I can trust more than that trainer's opinion about his/her dogs.  I know that he/she has experience actually getting to a high level of obedience with dogs.

Some dogs will never be completely reliable around anything on their own--meaning without some direction from their human--they will always need the human to tell them what to do in some situations.  Some will get to a natural reliability and good behavior because of the work they did in training and the self control and such they have developed.   But not all.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Okay I understand.  I think we want much of the same thing...I just want my 100% tested in a little different way.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I took this from Carol Brand's website. I love it.

What is a Title?

Not just a brag, not just a stepping stone to a higher title, not just an adjunct to competitive scores, a title is a tribute to the dog that bears it, a way to honor the dog, an ultimate memorial. It will remain in the record and in the memory, for about as long as anything in the world canremain. And though the dog herself doesn't know or care that her achievements have been noted, a title says many things in the world of humans where such things count. 

A title says your dog was intelligent, adaptable, and good natured. It says that your dog loved you enough to do the things that pleased you, however crazy they may have sometimes seemed. In addition, a title says that you loved your dog. That you loved to spend time with her because she was a good dog and that you believed in her enough to give her yet another chance when she failed and in the end your faith was justified. 

A title proves that your dog inspired you to that special relationship enjoyed by so few, that in a world of disposable creatures, this dog with a title was greatly loved, and loved greatly in return. And when that dear short life is over, the title remains as a memorial of the finest kind, the best you can give to a deserving friend. Volumes of praise in one small set of initials after the name. An obedience, agility, flyball, herding, etc. title is nothing less than true love and respect, given and received and recorded permanently. 

--Author unknown. 

[Adina P]

I think it is possible to adequately "finish" a dog in the respect that you have a reliable and obedient dog you can take anywhere. I don't yet know if "I" can yet. And it is still possible that we miss things and holes in training appear that need fixing. But even if we were perfect trainers, dogs are not computer programs you program and then never touch again. "Use it or lose it." And why not use it? Isn't that the point...so you CAN tell your dog to heel, come, stay and have it obeyed?

[Laura Deutsch]

Being one who works full time, but is very experienced with dogs and training, I agree with Jane as well. Unfortunately, we have very little time and energy to work with Molly, and, as a result, combined with the fact that she is very head strong, smart and puppy like 3 yr. old, know very well how the lack of daily training and consistency is a problem with having a well behaved, obedient dog. However, she is the happiest and most joyful dog we have every lived with and she gives us enormous pleasure. We work with her as much as we can, and certainly when she least expects it, and recently we have seen another developmental milestone. She is dropping it more often as soon as we say it, and stops and thinks about whether she is going to go with her intense instinct or listen to a command. It's really pretty funny. 

With our last dog, a beloved and amazing golden retriever, she always listened and did what we asked and we didn't have to continually train her. Molly is just a completely different animal and personality,  and we can see that we will need to be consistent and work with her as much as we can for many years. She keeps us young and laughing.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Laura, I'm so happy to hear that you're seeing progress with Molly...I hear from Ben that she's a joy.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

This is my huge, huge failing. I don't train the dogs any more and yet I want them to 'behave' when I take them out.  The only time they get regular and consistent work outs is when we are camping.   Yet, yesterday I walked Clancy off-leash down the street to get the mail and he was perfect - like he knew that if he didn't heel and sit like he should, I would march him right back into the house.  Good job, Clancy.....  Bad job, Mom...

But to answer you, I think partly it depends upon what you consider 'finished' and how eager the dog is to  please.  Our lab mix did not have a perfect heel or sit when we stopped, however he was totally reliable off-leash.  He never failed to reign himself in when reminded or come when called.  He was totally in tune with the entire family and minded whoever of us had him.

[Lynda Kamrath]

Yeah, well, I guess I am a failure.  Another training class is coming up and I was thinking of taking Harpo again.  He has taken the class two times and did agility with a very good teacher, but it was too hard for me to move quickly and spin around.  Found out I had BPPV (ear rocks) and I got that taken care of, but Harpo is just a bad boy. At three years old, he still jumps on people.  The agility trainer says that's okay (she has border collies) but the trainer in the behavior class says it is a no no.  I think it is me who needs the training to be a good trainer.

[Laura Deutsch]

Lynda,

It is definitely not ok to have a dog who jumps on people, however, what I have found is that it is a common trait with these dogs....especially the ones who are more poodle dominant than golden retriever or lab. I am thrilled that Molly, at 3, no longer counter surfs, but guess what.....if I forget, and  leave her in the kitchen for one minute unsupervised, she does......some of them are just very difficult. She totally knows better but unlike other dogs I've had, her instincts take over her sense. It's always a work in progress. Please don't call him a bad boy. It's the behavior. I am a teacher and I am always very careful when I talk to kids about their behavior.......it's not about them - it's about their behavior.