Submissive/Excited Peeing - will it EVER stop?

[Brianna and Rhubarb]

Hi Everyone! 

My husband and I so enjoy reading the forums and find it such a helpful place. Our standard F1 goldendoodle Rhubarb is 14 weeks old tomorrow. We also finish our 5 weeks of puppy obedience classes tomorrow, which are going well. She is a happy, playful dog and her housebreaking has been going very well. She knows where to go, holds it in her crate and can be left out of her crate for 1-2 hours at a time with no accidents.  

Our biggest problem is with submissive peeing. I am at my wit's end, and have no more tricks up my sleeve (and no more paper towels left in my budget!) Any time Rhubarb meets someone new, she runs up to them and happily piddles at their feet, often swishing her tail in the puddle, making a 5 foot wide spray radius of flying pee. She will then roll over on her back submissively (in the piddle) to get her tummy rubbed. It doesn't seem to matter if they actually are trying to pay attention to her or not. If we get her to sit before meeting people, she will raise her butt and start to wiggle as soon as they reach a hand toward her for a pet. The little stinker even manages to do it when she is 'empty' ... so she's got a little bit left in the tank! 

The frustration is that familiarity doesn't seem to help. She pees all over us, my mom, my brother and our friends, even though she sees many of us each day. Similarly, if someone has been at the house for an hour and she has completely calmed down, they can just say hi to her, or reach to pet her, and she sprinkles away. She has been well socialized with many different types of people since we got her at 8 weeks.... and piddled on all of them. Other than this, her housetraining is good and the piddling is definitely different from an 'accident'. 

I guess my ultimate question is ... is it possible that she might grow out of this? I feel like crying because we're working so hard with her and she is such a sweet dog, but it's exhausting to be so worried, getting people not to look at or touch her, and cleaning up ALL the TIME. Is there anyone out there who can tell us "this too shall pass"? Or should we buy stock in Bounty and settle in for the long hall? I've never had a dog who peed submissively before, so this is all new for me. 

Thanks in advance for your advice! 

[Julie and Charlie]

I won't guarantee it, but it will probably get better! Rhubarb is young! And is still figuring out the bladder control issue.

My strategy was to let Charlie grow out of it (is hope a strategy?), and take preventive steps. If he was going to meet someone new, I would take take Charlie out before he met them. When doing the actual greeting, I asked people to keep their greetings low-key at first, and give him a few minutes to settle down. (Sit didn't seem to help--it was difficult to figure out if he was sitting or squatting.) But he also never had the problem with me or anyone familiar.

I would say our bout with this is mostly over, although yesterday he met someone exciting after about 5 hours without going outside... I really had to ask that the greeting took place outside, and that it was low key. Thankfully, no pee.

Another possibility- can you hold her at first? Charlie wouldn't pee without being on the ground or the floor. Not sure how heavy she is, or how uncontrollable she might be when excited.

[Marcia & MoneyPenny]

I will also be interested in the replies. Penny (4months) also greets with a pee, not with us but anyone new or does not know well. We have had a series of rescues until we got Penny. Our last rescue came to us at the age of 2. She had been mistreated (not abused) & had no social skills, never been on a leash or even seen a dog on television. She initially submissive peed but as she calmed down & settled in it did stop. I am thinking that as Penny's greeting skills improve & the bladder control matures then the greet pee will cease.
We can only hope.

[Linda And Loo]

RB, my Cavanese was a submissive peer! Every time she would meet someone she would roll on her back and pee. It did not matter if she met someone inside or outside the result was always the same! Luckily when we would walk, there was a couple of guys that were dog lovers and they helped with the problem. When we would meet, I would have a tight lease and make her sit, when they approached us there was no eye contact with her and after a brief conversation they would bend over to pet her and they would not let her roll over. If she rolled and peed, they would stand and ignore her and once she flipped back over they would start all over. Once she quit trying to flip even if was just a short time we would leave on that positive note! When family and friends would come in they were told they should ignore her, no eye contact, until things calmed down. Once the initial meeting was over we had no problem with her. It takes time but they will gain control. RB still gets excited when she meets people and loves to have her belly rubbed but now with no puddles!

[Bonnie and Kona]

We had a submissive pee-er. This is how we handled it.
1. All greetings took place outside.
2. Person must ignore dog. No eye contact no touch.
3. When person was seated, after a period of time to calm dog, dog could go to person but still no eye contact or touching.
4. After a period of time when the dog seems acclimated to the person, then they can pet but never reach over the dog's head.
--reaching over the head triggers the submissive response.

Our dog eventually stopped peeing for family and finally stopped for strangers. The stranger peeing would crop up even after a few years if he met someone who just automatically leaned over him for a pet.

Good luck.

[Jennifer and Jack]

Molly my mom's dog is a submissive/excited pee dog.. WE do the same thing.. All greetings are outside.. once she gets the pee out of her. She is okay.. She has peed on people's shoes, on floors or anywhere.. She will also do it in a store if she is too excited.. we have to make her go before we go into Pet Smart or she will pee and poop when she walks in the store.

She is two years old and doing better but we still greet outside.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

There is an article around here somewhere ( can't search on a mobile device) that gives a great explanation to help you understand WHY this is occurring. In many instances, submissive urination is a way in which a dog shows respect! Strange, sure, but it is what it is. I hate it but it still helps to understand why.
In our situation it has become much less frequent. Mostly it happens with men that my dog adores but he sees not so often.
If I know beforehand, I just let him out in the yard to empty his bladder before the greeting. Your pup is young though so she has much less control of her bladder than a mature adult dog. The older she gets the better it may become

[Linda And Loo]

Bonnie, well said!

[Brianna and Rhubarb]

Thank you to all of you so far for your responses. I'm glad to know that there's something that we can actively 'do' (practice), rather than just wait it out. I am going to find some helpful 'strangers' and work on some of your suggestions with her. I'll keep you all posted :)

[Renee Hacker]

We have/had this issue with Lily too.  She's 9 months now and she seems to have outgrown it for the most part.  She still gets SUPER excited whenever she meets anyone new, but the peeing episodes have been few and far between lately.  She never did it with our immediate family, but anyone outside the 5 of us that live with her would set her off.  As I said, we still haven't gotten a "polite greeting" ironed out, but at least she doesn't pee every single time anymore.  Ignoring her did tend to help, but it's hard to get people to do...everyone wants to reach out and pet her right away.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Here is the article I was talking about from an old post. It did  not contain the reference however but I think it is a very good summary

Article I copied for you.

Submissive Urination.

"Submissive wetting or urination is a normal way for dogs and puppies to demonstrate submissive behavior. Even a dog that is otherwise housetrained may leave dribbles and puddles of urine at your feet and on the floor when greeting you.

Submissive urination is the ultimate show of respect and deference for higher rank. It occurs frequently with young puppies who have not yet learned and perfected other social skills and means of showing respect. Submissive urination in adult dogs is usually a sign of insecurity. Often unsocialized and abused dogs will submissively urinate. Other dogs that engage in submissive urination may simply have not been shown that there are more acceptable ways to show respect, such as paw raising (shake hands) or hand licking (give a kiss).

Submissive urination may be present in overly sensitive or mistreated dogs because they feel the need to constantly apologize. This state is often caused by excessive or delayed punishment which frightens and confuses the dog without teaching him how to make amends. The dog resorts to the only way he knows to show respect and fear, by submissive urination.

When your dog submissively urinates, it is best to just ignore him. If you try to reassure him, he will think you are praising him for urinating and will urinate even more. If you scold him, he will feel an even greater need to apologize by urinating. Either reassurance or scolding will only make submissive urination worse.

Treatment of submissive urination must be directed towards building your dog's confidence and showing him other ways to demonstrate respect. The quickest way to accomplish this is by teaching your dog a few basic obedience exercises. A dog that can earn praise by obeying a simple routine of "Come here, sit, shake hands," will soon develop self esteem and confidence. A confident dog who can say, "Hello, Boss" by sitting and shaking hands does not feel the need to urinate at his owner's feet. "

There are many more helpful articles just type "submissive urination" in your search engine

[Brianna and Rhubarb]

Thank you - this is very helpful!

[Katherine]

What great writing! Laughed all the way through it - also because I recognize the dilemma. We have 2 dogs - Goldie who is 8 y.o. and Zoe who is 6 m.o. My older had both submissive and excited peeing as a pup. I ignored it, wiped, and she grew out of it. Zoe has the excited pee, and like your pup seems to always end up in the pee too. I try to greet her outside, but otherwise just wipe and wait for bladder control to mature. With guests I warn them before they arrive. If they seem sensitive I'll take Zoe out as my guest walks in. Doesn't avoid the incident, but goes a long way to minimize it.

When Goldie went through this I despaired and felt embarrassed. As she got over it I came to appreciate that it's a puppy thing, and is sort of sweet. With Zoe I'm so relaxed about it. It is a compliment to us. They will grow out of it (Zoe has almost done so now). And puppy pee is pretty clean. But for guests that mind I try to ensure they are not exposed.