legit breeder, puppy mill or scam?

[Leo]

hi all, 

Im new and naive to the puppy world and am in need of some advice. my wife recently researched puppies for our family, we have a few children who are getting older and are ready for the responsibility of having a pet. 

she also has allergies to pet dander and has been hesitant to adopt a dog. her research led her to the "doodle" family and she focused on a specific breeder who breeds exclusively american labadoodles. the website claims that the dogs are "purebred, multi generational Labradoodles that
have perfect, fleecy, HYPO-ALLERGENIC,NON-SHEDDING Coats, square lines and great   conformation!  Premium lineage, Premium breed!"

my wife called the number and spent an hour on the phone with the breeder. everything seemed great. The breeder even arraigned for us to visit someone local who had adopted a labradoodle from her three years ago. the owner had nothing but complementary things to say about the breeder, and my wife reacted well to the dog. The breeder was warm and friendly, she answered all our questions and was readily available by phone and email. my wife decided to go with this breeder and made two payments three weeks apart. 

since then she has been very difficult to get in touch with her. for the past two and a half weeks she hasn't answered the phone once and has only responded to a few emails when the tone has turned somewhat aggressive. every time we call the business phone number it rings twice and gets forwarded to a cell phone which says the voicemail is full. she did email that there was a death of a young child in the family and she has been extremely busy. she sent a picture of the puppy my wife had chosen and said there would be more pictures coming. that was a week and a half ago and we havent gotten another picture. the only contact we had since then was this past Friday when she tried calling and left a message that she tried to call but wouldn't be available for a few hours. I've tried to call and surprise surprise, it went to a full voicemail box. my wife has emailed her on friday and yesterday and hasent gotten a response. 

at this point im very concerned about the whole transaction. I am very untrusting and think that we are being scamed.  I also dont want to over react and panic about something which is taking the normal course. How much contact should i be having with the breeder before the dog is delivered?

the puppy is now 6 weeks old and the breeder says she doesnt release them before 10 weeks.

thanks for listening 

any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Leo]

As most kids, mine have been begging for a dog since they were able to speak. We started to seriously consider getting a pet a few years ago but decided against it since the children were still too little. Taking care of a pet is a full time job and cannot be done half assed. It requires full time care and attention. Two years ago we decided we were ready for a dog and established a reward program for the kids to “earn” their pet.  It wasn’t until the kids achieved their goal that my wife and I decide it was time. we have been waiting with this "breeder" for almost 10 weeks now and would have to wait until mid july for the puppy to be ready to come here (if the breeder was legit)  Obviously we weren’t knowledgeable and the research done wasn’t thorough enough. We made a poor uneducated decision.  

[Leo]

right after i posted the last post my wife got an email from the Breeder with pictures attached.

"Marty is soooo sweet and smart! He is eating rice, yogurt and egg yolks every day and is still enjoying a snack of mother's milk several times a day. He has almost doubled his weight again and weighs over 4 pounds now.  He is playful and a little imp!

Rachel....I received your vm late last night so we can catch up later". 

now what....

[Adrienne]

Hear what she has to say.  Tell her your concerns, especially now that you are armed with more information, and decide if you want to deal with her going forward.  You will know if she is sincere and if she is telling the truth about her situation.  If she gets upset because you are voicing your concerns, RUN FOR THE HILLS!!  It sounds like you are already attached so I know that this is a hard decision for you.  Best of luck to you.

[Marnie, Stanlee's Mom]

Good advice Adrienne.

[Star and Goldie]

I think you still need to raise the question about genetic testing. If the answer is that they don't do genetic testing (which I don't believe they do given their prices and the fact that it isn't listed on their site) and then make a decision if you want to move forward. Don't let your current attachment to the puppy be the deciding factor right now because you have not gotten him yet. What happens if 3 yrs down the road he is diagnosed with a genetic condition that requires thousands of dollars for treatments or worse is incurable? Once you actually have the puppy then absolutely attachment and ownership play a vital role but right now it should not. Right now you are focused on empowering yourself.
If it were me, I would still dispute the charge and cancel the purchase. But that's just me. You have to be 100% comfortable with your decision.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm assuming that the "rice, yogurt, and egg yolks" is in addition to the Flint River Ranch dog food that this breeder sells. Let's hope so anyway, because that's a totally inappropriate diet for a young puppy. 

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

He's a very cute puppy, but the claims on this website are pretty outrageous ( I curious and was able to find it through North America's only holistic breeder).  Everything others have mentioned is a big cause for concern.  Plus, what are they breeding?  They don't breed F1's,  They don't breed F1b's, and they don't breed labradoodle to labradoodle.  So do these perfect dogs fall from the sky?  My breeder offered a 2 year health guarantee against genetic disease - all money refunded or replacement puppy-- which I think is pretty standard among good breeders. There are so many good knowledgeable people breeding wonderful pups. I would study What to Look for in a Good Breeder and restart your search, if possible.  Good luck.

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

To be more precise. my health guarantee stated..."all medical bills reimbursed up to the price of the puppy".  You're not going to want to part with a pup or give it back. If  health testing for specific genetic diseases was never done on the parents, what else could be wrong here?  Good for you for asking the right questions.  

[Angie, Hudson and Lily]

I would get a refund and look elsewhere. I know it is hard to wait, but there are too many red flags. In the contract it also says that " Buyer will maintain Nutrition and Supplement regime established". This means that if you don't keep the puppy on the vitamins and possibly the food that she uses, your warranty could be void. Breeders who do this get a kickback by having their puppy families buy into the food or vitamin program that they use. I wouldn't want to be part of something like that. 

The other part of her website that is a red flag is this: 

Complete FRANCHISE setups available,
 including tested stock,
 pedigree program,
 website construction,
 and much, much more to insure
 your success!!!

Sure breeders sell breeding stock to other breeders, but this kind of sounds like she is selling a McDonald's......

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You raise a very good point. This breeder sells supplements, and I'm willing  to bet next month's mortgage payment that the "nutrition and supplement regime" that buyers must maintain involves having to buy some of these products from the breeder, or the warranty is void. This is completely unacceptable. The website also links to Flint River Ranch food, which is sold through a multi-level marketing program (otherwise known as a "pyramid scheme"), and the breeder gets a commission every time you order the food, which you will also have to do to satisfy the terms of the warranty. This is also unacceptable. I would run for the hills. 

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Advertising a complete franchise setup -- OK, THAT makes me sick!

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Just found the website and I wouldn't touch it with a barge poll. Lots of bright red flags and interestingly no pictures of dams or sires with information about them, no photo's of where this 'home' is, no genetic testing etc etc and all in all I'd say get your money back ASAP. You may just have had a lucky escape.