Obesity and insulin resistance

[F, Calla & Luca]

I found this to be very interesting although it leaves things up in the air. But of late I have heard many interesting things on obesity, inflammation and mood disorders and it is all intriguing. I expect in the future there will be much more information on all this and new ways of looking at things.
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diab...

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Never thought I'd be joining the Science Group but found this topic interesting.  Wouldn't let me reply under F's comment about removing sugar and not craving it .... But, When I was about 42 I did Adkins and lost about 70 lbs.  Kept those off for over 8 years.  Then I just started slipping a little and regained about 40 of them.  I completely agree at least for me that I'm better off not eating any sugar because as soon as I start I cannot seem to stop.  But when I did Atkins I didn't miss it at all after the initial phase.  What I did miss is that I am a fruit and vegetable person at heart ... However fruit does the same thing to me.  I recently started with the Weight Watchers Program and find it to be one that I can live with because I can basically eat whatever I want, and I can get extra points by exercising.  I got into an exercise routine before I started the Weight Watchers so it is easy for me to earn extra points by exercising so I never have to feel like there is something I can't have. 

I started reading this post and watching the video though because of Lucy.  I'm thinking that there is something going on with her with regard to thyroid or something because since she has been on this food trial with all treats removed (except raw carrots which she mostly won't eat) she hasn't lost any weight.  Most days she only eats 1/2 the amount of food recommend on the bag.  She used to eat A LOT of treats (my bad).  I would guess she ate more calories a day in treats than in food.  I was sure when we removed just the treats that she was going to drop weight like crazy.  She has gotten so much exercise since Honey was here and now with AnnaBelle and she is up two lbs from when the trial started.  It just doesn't make any sense to me that she should not have lost weight (which she does need to do).  I do measure her food.  

[F, Calla & Luca]

Welcome, we have interesting discussions here : ) I don't know why Lucy would knot have lost some weight. How long has it been since you changed her diet? Also, weights do vary based on excretion, water intake etc. so look for a trend and don't stress over one weigh in.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Thanks F ... We weigh her every opportunity we get.  We've been taking her when AnnaBelle has gone for her shots and she was down a couple and then was up a couple the other day on the Petsmart scale.  The Vet and Petsmart Vet scales are the two we have always used to weigh her.  I just kept waiting for a big drop and just am not seeing it.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Big drops are hard to come by. And Karen's points make sense. Give it some more time.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Sheri, I think Lucy's weight gain and the difficuty in losing weight now are probably related to a loss of muscle mass from her ACL problems and subsequent recovery period. The more muscle tissue, the more calories required, even at rest. Lose muscle tissue and your metabolism drops. 

The current weight gain might also reflect a gain in muscle mass. Muscle weighs more than fat, as you know. That's why I always advised my clients to stay off the scale. The numbers mean nothing. I can show you 2 people with the same height and weight, one who is obese and one who is extremely lean and fit. I'd take a look at her body composition, rather than the scale, and I'll bet you'll see some changes. 

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

That is what Mike said yesterday because when I gave her a bath and she was all wet she didn't look fat.  This could also account for why when she had her surgery back last year we thought we had gotten some weight off of her.  We had her down to about 73 lbs when Sophie got sick.  That was right at the end of Lucy's rehab process.  Now I'm guessing that is muscle loss.  That foot still feels smaller than the other.  You can tell a difference in the two legs.  Then she got back up to 80 lbs and yesterday 82 lbs.  I just knew when we stopped the treats the weight was gonna fall off her.  The Ortho wanted her at like 65-70 lbs max. 

[Ron Carnes]

A insulin resistant diabetic (type2) may never know they are diabetic until the damage is done. A type 1 diabetic will know within a few days and can be control with insulin. Some will get complications regardless of how hard they try and a few will never have complications. He is correct on low carb and high protien for a diabetic. Insulin resistance can also be caused by certain medications or during pregnancy. It is much more complicated than he makes it out to be. From a 40 year type1 diabetic and 14 yearsa out on a kidney/panceas transplant.

[Lynda Kamrath]

Okay, this is what attracted me to this discussion also.  I am also an insulin-resistant diabetic (type 2) and have spent a lot of time and energy researching this whole diagnosis.  In January of 2012, I completely lost my appetite. I took off 15 pounds in one month, then 5 pounds the next month, and 5 pounds the month after that.  My doctor was working with me and I had a diabetic dietician also working with me.  My triglycerides were very high but I never seemed to really lose energy, but I was burning all my fat for energy.  It got scary.  I went on a vegan diet with lots of beans and nuts.  That stopped the weight loss, but there was still too much sugar and insulin in my blood.  That is when I found out what insulin resistant means.  My sugars were down, I still was making insulin, but the insulin was not working to attach to the sugar and take it into the cells.  The insulin resistance is caused from fats and particularly animal fats.  So, my diet went from strictly vegan to no animal fats, no dairy, and of course, no sugars (particularly corn syrup).  I still have plenty of things to eat and we have learned to cook more healthily.  I also get lots of exercise and the dogs help me with that. I swim four days a week and walk a mile on the treadmill.  Then I also take the dogs on 3 - 4 mile walks three times a week while my husband is biking.  I have added an occasional egg and fish into my diet.  We eat a lot from our garden, have fruits and veges delivered weekly to our house, shop at farmer's markets and fruit stands, and avoid the supermarkets.  I have cut out most medications, but have frequent doctor visits.  It is doable, but not easy.  Knowing what insulin resistance was really helped me to understand my body so much better.  Keep at it Ron. I did not see the low carb, high protein statement referred to above.  But watch the protein - it is not all the same to us diabetics.

[Adina P]

Karen, I don't think 6-11 servings of grain are unreasonable amounts. The low end of 6 is meant for more sedentary women and 11 bigger men. 6 servings would be = 1 cup oats for breakfast, 1 whole sandwich at lunch, and 1 cup rice at dinner. Hardly excessive. But add on a few snacky foods and one can easily overdo it. The old pyramid also recommended so many fruits and veggies, but few get that daily. It wasn't perfect, but I don't think it was bad in the grains.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think it's excessive in relation to the total daily calorie intake for a sedentary woman. Too large a percentage of the day's calories in grains. But then, I've never thought that 60% of anyone's daily caloric intake should be complex carbohydrates. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/mypyramid-problems/

And some really good opinions on the 1992 food pyramid, including one from Marion Nestle:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/pyramid.html

[Adina P]

I agree.  I was probably too generous with my 'not perfect' description of the pyramid.  Honestly, I think it gets almost ridiculous to make public health recommendations for how much of each food group individuals should eat.  And it's even harder to do it well and in a way that most people can understand.  Eating is personal and emotional and I don't think that is necessarily bad.  Food/eating can be abused for emotional reasons, but I don't think it needs to be a math problem to be done right.  Some don't believe in eating meat or dairy or find they do better with XYZ.  Some people have cultural preferences, etc. 

I like Michael Pollan's: "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much" except for the 'not too much' can come across as finger wagging and pushing veganism.  I prefer Ellyn Satter's work on Eating Competence to food pyramids. It covers the "how" of eating: http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/fmf/fmf21.php.  Of course those people who are eating competent and have time, money, education and/or resources can then take that a step further into more instrumental eating: refine their diets for fitness/athletics/body sculpting/working on health problems that can be helped with food.  But often if someone is not a competent eater in the first place, simply telling them to eat XYZ just doesn't stick with them.  They don't trust themselves and fall in and out of fad diets and overeating.

But I generally don't worry about meeting some black/white criteria of how many servings from each food group I need to have each day. Some meals I am dying for the carb part, other meals I crave more protein, and sometimes I could just eat a huge salad. If I had an in-home chef I would probably eat lots of plants, various whole grains, tofu, nuts, various fats, beans, EGGS (I adore well done scrambled eggs!), fish, and very occasionally some chicken and even more rarely (if ever) beef.