Is Health Testing worth the extra cost?

[Jennifer Tramell]

I'm sure many people are already riled and have their opinion formed and ready to shoot, but hear me out.......

Over the past couple years, I have researched a few different health issues/diseases which affect dogs.  The first is hip dysplasia.  Webster is a big boy (88 lbs) and he has a more retriever frame.  I have always worried about him having hip dysplasia, even though upon educating myself he shows no signs.  I learned that hip dysplasia is caused by many different genes and dogs who have excellent hips can produce puppies with hip dysplasia while dogs with bad hips can produce pups with great hips.  It is not only genetic, it is also environmental, and it is often not discovered until a standard health warranty (1-2 years) is expired.  I know of someone who has a goldendoodle bought from a very reputable breeder at full market price, parents had all the health testing and hip certification, and the pup came down with hip dysplasia under 1 year old.

 

The next disease is seizures.  I am familiar with a couple dogs who have seizures and there is no health testing for parent dogs which will show epilepsy.  It appears as though this disease can be triggered by non-genetic factors and often is not displayed until the health warranty expires.

 

Thirdly are the auto-immune diseases.  We are dealing with this because of Charlotte so I've done a little research.  It is assumed that auto-immune diseases are inherited but, again, there really aren't tests to run on parent dogs.  Charlotte's auto-immune disease usually stays dormant until a dog is 3-5 years old and most health warranties expire prior to that period.  Even if there was a long warranty, there is no proof that this is inherited, it is only assumed.

 

I have not researched extensively but as of this time I am not convinced that the very high prices charged for puppies from health tested parents is warranted.  I've had Charlotte's hips tested (for my own peace of mind) and I looked into the other genetic testing.  We just added a 3rd doodle to our family and I decided that health testing of parents didn't give me much peace of mind - there are too many variables in play which affect the future health of my dogs.

 

 

[Adina P]

I agree with you and Karen, F. 
Whether the business is one that involves a controversial ethical dilemma (wearing fur, breeding, child worker slaves) OR is a simple made-in-the-USA-toxin-free chew toy what keeps a business in business is buyers.  I could have a fabulous product but if not enough people buy it to keep my business afloat, I can't continue.  If McDonald's comes up with a super nutritious, high fiber, low fat, full of veggies entree and hardly anyone buys it...it will drop it from the menu.
The puppy bought from a mill might be lucky to be bought by a nice person, but that purchase DOES encourage the mill to keep breeding.  It adds justification to the 'breeder' as well.  "People want my puppies, I'm providing a service!"  I also see it like the reverse of the voting thing.  No one voter makes a big difference, but if everyone quit voting, it would make a difference.  The problem is that a lot of people probably are saying the same things when they get a hint that they might be buying from a shady breeder.  "Oh I'm saving this puppy...it's okay!"  Enough people do that + people who don't realize it's a mill = Encouragement to continue breeding.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And again, I would ask you, if you take health testing out of the equation, what are the criteria that someone should use to choose a breeder? 

[Jennifer Tramell]

I would want a referral from their vet, to know the age of the parents, how many litters there have been, and recommendations from several puppy owners.  I would want to be welcome to visit the parents and puppies, and see pictures of the parent dogs in various settings -  not only want posed pictures or far away pictures.   Do the parents have their CGC? been in 4H, agility, or other doggie activities?

I would want to know what is done with the puppies during the first 8 weeks.  Have they done ENS (Early Neurological Stimulation), socialization, etc.  Where have the puppies lived?  In a kennel?  In the house?  In a barn?  How long are the pups kept with the mother?  I believe that puppies learn a great deal during weeks 5-8; Momma Dog becomes a teacher not just a milk bar.

I'm sure there is more but this is all I can think of at the present time.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Your testing prices are extremely inexpensive. Calla's hip xrays were about $400. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I thought so, too. OFA hip testing requires general anesthetic. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

But you know, if the testing is that inexpensive, even less excuse for a breeder not to do it. Why not test? 

[Jennifer Tramell]

Well, they were done 1 1/2 years ago under general anesthesia and that's what our vet charged.  We had no need to send them to OFA because they were just for my peace of mind. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

I would rather have one dog from a good breeder that health tests than buy multiple dogs from parents with no health testing if money were a limiting factor. If money is a consideration doesn't having multiple dogs also raise the costs of routine car or paying for medication or surgery? Of course it does. I know having two doodles is more expensive than one and three just raises the ante. This all doesn't make sense to me. Buying dogs that are less expensive does raise the odds of having a health problem and I believe conscientious owners need to know they can afford insurance or take care of health costs not if but when they arise. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree completely with this as well. 

[Adina P]

I think there are good points about health testing being limited in what it can prove or rule out.  And some breeders do use health testing as marketing without proper acquisition of quality stock in the first place.  Some breeders have no knowledge about the lines health history outside of the testing results.  

But ultimately I agree with Karen.  Health testing is a small, but necessary, aspect of what I consider responsible breeding.  It is necessary, but not enough on its own.  I wish there were MORE doodle breeders who did health testing AND bred for temperament AND did dog sports with their doodles.  That is ideal.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Now that I know better, I want it all.  I want parents that were health tested, breeders who KNOW their dogs and have a reason for the pairing, puppies given tons of stimulation and socialization.  I was recently asked to research English Springer Spaniel breeder websites in my area for someone interested in getting a puppy. What a difference from when we got our Springer!!!!  Now, I want a Springer puppy... sigh.... a healthy one from champion stock, home raised..... ah - beautiful...  I love my Gordie, but I so wish he were physically healthy, and not anxious all of the time.  I would be more than willing to pay the $1,600 price instead of the $450 we paid.

[Jennifer Tramell]

I believe this debate has gotten off course.  It is not my contention that buying a puppy from health tested parents has no value, rather, is it worth the extra cost (not a little extra, but often double the money)?  I hoped to debate the specifics of health testing, not breeding ethics.

 

The illnesses which are tested are hip/elbow dysplasia, Von Willebrand's disease, heart and eye problems.  There are many, many diseases which can not be screened. Cancer, epilepsy, auto-immune diseases, allergies, ACL, poor mental/emotional health,  these are all diseases which I have seen on DK and several I have personally experienced.  I am unaware of these illnesses being covered in standard health testing. 

 

Anytime a puppy is added to a family, the owner should make a wise, informed, conscientious choice.  There is always a risk of a dog becoming ill and racking up vet bills.  Buying a dog from health tested parents does not guarantee a healthy dog;  it does "stack the odds" but does it only "stack the odds" against dysplasia, von Willebrands, heart/eye disease? 

 

My experience with dog health has been cancer, seizures/epilepsy, neurotic behavior, and hip dysplasia.  Of these issues, only hip dysplasia MAY have been prevented with screened parents.  Knowing the health of the parent dogs (and preferably the grandparent dogs) by vet referrals and visiting with the parent dogs may not give specific genetic information about a handful of diseases, but it can give an overview of the physical and mental health of the parent dogs (and this would rule out puppy mills and BYBs).  To me, this is as valuable as health testing which covers the few aforementioned conditions.